How Would YOU Fix The Economy?

[p8baller07]

Corporation's don't get taxed? What? lol...

 

Flat taxation? Are you joking?

 

 

Lets hope Lo is never world leader.

[LoArmistead]

Corporation's don't get taxed? What? lol...

 

Flat taxation? Are you joking?

 

 

Lets hope Lo is never world leader.

I just noticed I may need to clarify - by a flat tax I mean a flat tax rate, not a flat tax payment.

Edited April 8, 2009 by LoArmistead

[Verran]

Lo, those two big posts were both great! Especially the marijuana part. And for the record, I don't smoke and I wouldn't even if it was legal, but it's definitely a "two birds, one stone" example. Anyone who thinks we're winning the "War On Drugs" is kidding themselves. It's going to happen either way, so we might as well profit from it, clean it up while we're in there, and make sure the money isn't going into the wrong hands. It'll never happen though because despite our claims of openness, our government is still Christian at its core, and the fundamentalists would never even consider this.

 

I don't think corporate failure has anything to do with the quality of the goods...it just shows that the business model they follow doesn't work. Plenty of companies offering great products go out of business because someone goofs up in a way completely unrelated to the product.

A valid point. A failing company isn't necessarily failing due to low product quality. However, when we send the message that we will buy their products out of 'patriotism' (or whatever you call this), then you're clearly sending the message that you're shopping based on where the factory is located and NOT based on what it's making.

 

If you send the message that you're always going to buy American where you can, then you're indirectly telling those American companies that they don't have to be competitive, because you've already decided to buy before you've even seen the product. I have no doubt I'll be flamed for this, but I think this is a major part of domestic car market problem.

 

Domestic loyalty is ridiculous to me anyways in this market which is nothing if not global. If American companies make the best product by whatever standards I'm using in that case, they will get my money. If not it may go oversees, and I'm fine with that.

[Crazy_Nate]

My opinion on this is the same as my opinion on domestic cars. If American products were truly the best value, the government wouldn't have to trick us into buying them with stuff like this. And if they're not the best value, buying them anyways out of some strange patriotism just sends the message that you're willing to accept second rate products as long as they're stamped with an American flag (figuratively, of course).

 

Well, here's my thought on this. Large international companies have manufacturing plants in the US. That so called "import" might be made here without you knowing it. Saves on transportation costs, and provides jobs for the US. I had a feeling somebody would point at the US car industry.

 

You don't have to spend your stimulus on large, one time buy purchases, spend it on commodities. Those can surely be made in this country, right? Also, you're not telling American companies to be less competitive, you're encouraging domestically owned (and foreign owned) manufacturers to produce things locally. It's a huge quirk I have. How much energy is wasted shipping doodads globally? All for cheaper labor, and sometimes less stringent laws and regulations? That doesn't sit right with me.

 

When was the transition from being American made was an indication of quality, to the current one? I know plenty of smart manufacturing oriented companies that put out high quality products in this country, but that may not be indicative of the whole. Is quality not a virtue any more?

 

It's one of the top criteria for something I buy that isn't a commodity. It's gotta last. Period.

 

You should have seen me in QC...most of the guys hated me because I forced them to produce better parts. There were a seldom few that appreciated what I did because I understood WHY. Hell, the foreman would ride my butt about pushing parts out the door. Man, we clashed a lot.

 

PS. I agree on a flat tax. And legalizing marijuana...tax the hell out of it.

[Verran]

How much energy is wasted shipping doodads globally? All for cheaper labor, and sometimes less stringent laws and regulations? That doesn't sit right with me.

And yet they wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable.

 

Ultimately I'm not trying to say you should or shouldn't buy domestic or import. I'm not making a general statement like that. I've owned Honda, Dodge, Ford, and Scion. My wife has driven Pontiac, Olds, VW, and Saturn. I shop by value, not by brand location, and I recommend others do the same.

 

The problem I have is that I support free markets and I think if we allow them to, they will create the best products at the best prices. When we sully that by doing things like giving people money only if they spend it on domestic products, we really ruin the spirit. You sacrifice the greater good for your own personal benefit and you've broken the survival-of-the-fittest element of the market.

 

My wife told her mother the other day that she was looking to trade up her Saturn for a foreign car, and her mom's response was a very quick "You've got to buy domestic!" And all I can say is: "No you don't!" That's ridiculous. Buy the best value for your money, period. And it's people like that that I think encourage domestic companies to become complacent because that sentiment is VERY common, especially here in Lansing, MI. I mean she admits right there that she won't even consider a foreign car, so she's basically saying that she'll buy anything so long as it's American made. I think that sends a pretty strong message that they can slack off on quality without any repercussions.

 

As far as when did my opinion of American made go from quality to not? I think it's best to not go here. Not only will my opinions cause massive debate, but it's really not the point of this thread. Again, I'm not pro-domestic nor am I anti-domestic. I'm just anti-shopping-by-location.

[Crazy_Nate]

I'm not getting into a foreign car debate. I'm probably going to buy a Honda. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Honda...s#United_States

 

What I'm saying is the thought of a "foreign" manufacturer isn't necessarily foreign in production.

 

Sorry if I put "quality" into the argument. It's just what I normally hear when people talk about cars...

 

I just have a problem with lucrative business practices that involve exploitation of other countries lax conditions.

[Verran]

What I'm saying is the thought of a "foreign" manufacturer isn't necessarily foreign in production.

A very good point, and really I think it adds further humor to the situation. When I had my Focus, my brother had a Civic. My Focus (generally viewed as "domestic", of course) was assembled in Mexico. My brother's "foreign" Honda was assembled in Ohio. I find no small amount of humor in that. By pushing domestic blindly, people often shoot themselves in the foot. The foreign car is actually more domestic than the domestic car.

 

I just have a problem with lucrative business practices that involve exploitation of other countries lax conditions.

I agree. It sucks. But look at what's happening with India. (I'm in programming, so I see a LOT of it.) They used to get Indian contract work for dimes on the dollar, but now top minds from India are actually charging MORE for their work in some instances. The outsourcing has caused a major boom over there, and should continue to do so until things equal out and it's no longer viable to outsource because the prices aren't that much different anymore.

[LoArmistead]

Hell, my entire family on both sides has ALWAYS bought domestic out of habit. They never shopped around, it was just implanted in their heads that when they go to look for a car, they stop by the Chevy or Ford dealership. Up until 2005, my immediate family had always had domestics - out of habit - Chevys, a Dodge (two including the first one that died in less than a year...), lots of Fords. In 2005 we bought our first import - a Lexus GX470. The extended family was shocked that we bought an import. When sister came of age to drive, she got an Acura car. The family was once again shocked! And now, a year later, when I decided to go out car shopping for a fun car, I steered away from all the domestics and settled on an Infiniti.

 

The family tries to shame us for not buying American, for putting American workers out of work. Oh, well excuse me! I don't want to harm the high school graduate union worker making $70,000 per year to put pop rivets in a wheel well for 7.25 hours per day up in the crap hole we call Detroit. Plus, did you know Nissan Motors employs 40,000 Americans? Better yet, 40,000 non-union Americans who build great cars PROFITABLY, have a good business model, and put food on the tables of their American families? But I guess they don't count since they don't work for Ford or GM... oh and by the way, my last Ford was built in Canada and Mexico.

 

That being said, I still LOVE my Bronco. and if I had a use for another truck, I would most certainly buy a GM/Ford truck, since that's one of the few things they can still make better than anyone else. If the government put a gun to my head and forced me to buy an American car (fingers crossed), I'd choose a Ford right now, since they are probably going to be the only one in existence within the next couple of years, or the only one not wholly owned by the federal government.

[InCrYsIs]

I really think it can't be fixed. I just believe things will have to run their course. This just happens and history proves it will rebound.

 

Legalizing marijuana and taxing the hell out of it is a great way to help the deficit. But a test for sobriety needs to be implemented for DWI. I'm not sure they have that ability yet, I might be wrong. I am not a smoker but I don't care if others do it as long as its not around me. But I also don't think people should drive high.

 

They can legalize all drugs actually. It will also help with population control which is a big problem which I know is a sad outlook but it will happen.

 

On a conspiracy theory note I believe the government runs the drug trade.

[Waco]

Domestic loyalty is ridiculous to me anyways in this market which is nothing if not global. If American companies make the best product by whatever standards I'm using in that case, they will get my money. If not it may go oversees, and I'm fine with that.

Agreed 1000%.

[ExRoadie]

Nvm, I'm not the political type. I just wanted to see what your position on illegal immigration is, and how you would go by regulating it, or the lack of regulation.

There is no such thing as illegal immigration. There are legal immigrants and illegal aliens.

 

Anyone not here legally should be forced to leave the country immediately. Children of illegal aliens have no constitutional right to reside in this country much less be granted citizenship by default since their parents were criminals upon entry. Shut off all taxpayer money provided to illegal aliens. Seal the borders and enforce stringent fines and jail-time for anyone that hires illegal aliens.

 

Once this is cleared up we can re-evaluate our city populations and more appropriately get an accurate census for political districts. This will return the proper value to "one citizen-one vote" that has been out of balance for far too long.

 

Additionally, this would resolve the unemployment situation since there would be lots of jobs available for citizens to take.

 

On the other hand, no one has the courage to stand up for citizens and put a stop to this anarchy. They promote illegal aliens as an integral part of our society doing jobs Americans don't want.

 

The sad truth is that it's all political hooey and they've thrown citizens under the bus to further their political power.

[ExRoadie]

The economy doesn't need fixing. It's government that caused the problem and is making it worse.

 

The reality is that we follow a 60 year cycle of boom and bust. Sure there are peaks and valleys along the way but the larger cycle is what must be dealt with and prepared for.

 

Another point is that when the economy retracts like it has, government doesn't. Spending in the market has decreased bringing about a decrease in tax collection. When an individual suffers a decrease in income there must be an appropriate decrease in spending otherwise the balance sheet fails.

 

For some reason, government thinks that it's just fine to print more money when tax collections decrease so they can go about spending more money. Printing more money simply devalues the current dollars in circulation causing inflation. Government believes that by selling debt at today's dollar and paying it back with devalued dollars in the future is a fine way to do business.

 

The sad part is that this game of dollars does nothing to help the citizens which bear the brunt of the inflation. In fact, the only two times this game has been played resulted in the collapse of the economy of Zimbabwe and the Weimar Republic.

 

Those that fail to understand history are bound to repeat it.