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How 'Bout That Tesla S?


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#13 Silverfox

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 11:39 AM

These got awful reviews - real world range of 50-odd miles imperial. Hydrogen based engines are touted as the future due to limited requirement of fossil fuels.

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#14 LoArmistead

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 11:40 AM

I've been wondering about this as well. Also with pollution. They're just moving the pollution from emitting from your car to emitting from your local power plant. I would think you'd still be getting about the same amount of pollution production if that power plant was using gas or coal. I don't know though. Any thoughts on that?


I don't know the hard numbers, but I would think the amount of CO2 put into the atmosphere to produce 4 hours worth of 220v electricity wouldn't come close to the amount emitted from a gas engine running for 300 miles, plus the amount emitted from the oil refinery producing the gasoline to run it.

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#15 Silverfox

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 11:42 AM

Hmm, newer batteries ...

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#16 LoArmistead

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 11:45 AM

Hmm, newer batteries ...



Just don't let Sony make them. Last thing we need is to have these things randomly erupting into a ball of flames at the red light.

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#17 Verran

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 11:47 AM

Not spending money on gas, ok, but what about the electric costs it takes to CHARGE this thing? And think about how they make most electricity anyway.

A lot of people make this argument, but it's actually pretty short sighted. Yes, most wall power in the US comes from fossil fuels. So yes, a plug-in vehicle is still technically fossil fueled. However, a power plant on the scale of something that produces for a whole city is WAY more efficient than the one in most cars. Just because they're using the same fuels doesn't mean they're the same efficiency. Plug-in power is still WAY more eco-friendly than gas powered.

Also, yes wall power costs money but again, as Lo's figures show, the efficiency I talked about above not only translates to less pollution, but also to our wallets. Wall power is way cheaper than gas.

The real question is the environmental impact of both creating and disposing of the batteries. That's something I'm not entirely convinced is "greener" than the alternative. There's some pretty eco-ugly stuff involved there. And then there's the monetary costs of battery maintenance. We'll see there too.

All in all, though, if a small plug-in with 150ish mile range was available to me at a decent price, I'd be all over it. My daily commute is about 12 miles. Even normal "heavy load" of driving for me wouldn't come close to 150 miles. But then again, with the way I drive I'd get much lower than the advertised max mileage :)
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#18 redtigerdragon

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 11:47 AM

hopefully with the new battery technology that just came out these things will be able to chage as fast as it take to fill up at the pump now.
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#19 Crazy_Nate

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 11:52 AM

hopefully with the new battery technology that just came out these things will be able to chage as fast as it take to fill up at the pump now.


I'm not really sure why you would want to charge them that fast... You'd have to have batteries that can sustain a HUGE amount of current and you have to have a source that can sustain it (and not cause local grid brown outs lol).

You've just gotta think about it differently than a gasoline / diesel vehicle. Plug it in regularly. Leave it plugged in for a couple hours. Might take a little more planning, but I think that's a good thing.

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#20 Silverfox

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 11:53 AM

I am also wondering about the implications of the battery contents in the event of a crash ...

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#21 redtigerdragon

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 11:56 AM

I'm not really sure why you would want to charge them that fast... You'd have to have batteries that can sustain a HUGE amount of current and you have to have a source that can sustain it (and not cause local grid brown outs lol).


I dunno if the new lithium ion batteries require more juice or not, but here is the article on them: http://www.tgdaily.c...view/41686/181/
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#22 94Camaro

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 06:32 PM

Ok, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Our grid can't handle a transition to electric vehicles. And it won't be able to do so for DECADES. We simply don't have the engineering manpower for it. Even if we had the transmission capabilities, we don't have the generation. Wind is, and will be for quite some time, a novelty. The enviros won't let us build new clean coal plants, instead forcing us to continue to use 50 year old dirty coal plants. And they won't let us build more nuclear - which I maintain is the only feasible way to meet our future demands.

And since our grid can't expand quickly enough to support these things, electric prices will skyrocket. I don't mean a few percent or even double or triple current rates. I mean absolutely ridiculous increases. That'll make people long for $4.50 gasoline. 'bamas cap and trade scheme is already going to increase electric rates a good amount. This would only exacerbate the problem.

Someone mentioned that you'll be able to "just plug it in at night in the garage." I live in an apartment complex that has parking lots. Where the hell am I gonna plug my electric car in? Are we going to rip up every parking lot in every housing community in America to bury lines for charging stations?



Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see an electric car just as much as anyone else, but it's not time for it yet. We've got to do some serious groundwork before we can't even think about replacing combustion engine cars.

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#23 Boinker

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 06:56 PM

Ok, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Our grid can't handle a transition to electric vehicles. And it won't be able to do so for DECADES. We simply don't have the engineering manpower for it. Even if we had the transmission capabilities, we don't have the generation. Wind is, and will be for quite some time, a novelty. The enviros won't let us build new clean coal plants, instead forcing us to continue to use 50 year old dirty coal plants. And they won't let us build more nuclear - which I maintain is the only feasible way to meet our future demands.

And since our grid can't expand quickly enough to support these things, electric prices will skyrocket. I don't mean a few percent or even double or triple current rates. I mean absolutely ridiculous increases. That'll make people long for $4.50 gasoline. 'bamas cap and trade scheme is already going to increase electric rates a good amount. This would only exacerbate the problem.

Someone mentioned that you'll be able to "just plug it in at night in the garage." I live in an apartment complex that has parking lots. Where the hell am I gonna plug my electric car in? Are we going to rip up every parking lot in every housing community in America to bury lines for charging stations?



Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see an electric car just as much as anyone else, but it's not time for it yet. We've got to do some serious groundwork before we can't even think about replacing combustion engine cars.


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#24 Verran

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 06:58 PM

Did we have the infrastructure to support cars for every American when they made the first car? No.
Does everyone in America live in an apartment like you? No.

I really don't see why you're being so condemning here. You say it will take decades to support us all on plug-ins. I say it will take decades to get us all into plug-ins. Works out pretty well.

I just don't see what you're trying to say. Should they stop making plug-ins?
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