Gun Rights and Politics

[Silverfox]

our laws prohibit owning a shotgun unless you need it, and most other guns are banned.

 

Rightly so in my opinion. There is very little need for a firearm in Britain, and those who want to shoot, can join clubs etc for hobbies. It works for our society, but of course, it wouldn't work in the USA. I own a .22 air pistol, but we can't shoot those within 12 feet of a public highway, which in our somewhat densely populated towns and cities, is pretty difficult. I'm pretty handy with a .22 air rifle too, but the range on most is pretty poor.

 

This whole right to bear arms thing? Only in America

[suchuwato]

Rightly so in my opinion. There is very little need for a firearm in Britain, and those who want to shoot, can join clubs etc for hobbies. It works for our society, but of course, it wouldn't work in the USA. I own a .22 air pistol, but we can't shoot those within 12 feet of a public highway, which in our somewhat densely populated towns and cities, is pretty difficult. I'm pretty handy with a .22 air rifle too, but the range on most is pretty poor.

 

This whole right to bear arms thing? Only in America

 

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with all restrictions we have, if anything they should be tighter - I'd just like to be able to shoot a gas rifle in the woods without having to pay for a registered club membership and attend regularly

[ExRoadie]

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with all restrictions we have, if anything they should be tighter

Personally, I'm very glad that the United States founders were farsighted enough to recognize that the citizens are what makes the country work and intended for the government to know that if they pissed the citizenry off enough that they just might take action.

 

Now, I don't ask this lightly since I certainly do not wish to offend you but since you brought it up I just had to ask...

 

How does it feel to know that only the bad guys and the government have guns?

[Silverfox]

How does it feel to know that only the bad guys and the government have guns?

 

It feels reassuring, as anyone that has a gun can generally be singled out as a criminal without any shadow of a doubt. We have gun crime, but proportionally less so than the USA. Our gun crime is mostly gang related, so it's bad guys killing bad guys. Sometimes the public get shot too, but it's always going to be the case. Last high school shooting in the UK?

 

I never walk out feeling unsafe, scared or worried. I bet many Americans do, and for that reason, I feel sorry for them.

[PaiN]

I never walk out feeling unsafe, scared or worried.

 

I'd be.....is not the UK's knife crime among the highest in the world and getting worse?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/worldview/2008/12...nife-crime.html

 

This argument can go back and forth ad-nauseum(so I'll stop after this). Unfortunately for the "antis'" it is weak and baseless. The information you are fed about crime going down when law-abiding citizens are disarmed is flat out bogus and asinine. A law-abiding person is a law-abiding person armed or not. In the US to possess and carry a firearm, a person needs to show they have had qualified training, then pass local, state and federal background and legitimacy checks, including having finger prints filed. Once granted the right and permit to carry very strict rules/guidelines must be followed including placement, concealment and, of course, use. These permits can be revoked and any firearm registered to that person confiscated for infractions of the law, violent or disruptive behavior including intoxication and DWI(driving while intoxicated) infractions.

 

See....not the yahoo cowboy thing you might imagine

[Andrewr05]

In the US to possess and carry a firearm, a person needs to show they have had qualified training, then pass local, state and federal background and legitimacy checks, including having finger prints filed. Once granted the right and permit to carry very strict rules/guidelines must be followed including placement, concealment and, of course, use.

That is not true for all states...

 

 

For instance in VT I can carry any single action or semi-automatic weapon concealed or not anywhere I desire without a permit.

(except for within 500 feet of government owned areas and schools)

Edited February 1, 2009 by Andrewr05

[suchuwato]

How does it feel to know that only the bad guys and the government have guns?

 

Well, the government don't have any guns, the Police and Military do - separation of powers and all that.

 

Honestly, I'm cool with it. As firearms aren't as available as they are in other countries the 'bad guys' don't have access to the sort of range you may expect. Armed crime tends to be carried out with sawn-off shotguns or modified low-power weapons from Eastern Europe, both of which aren't particularly reliable or lethal. True, in the UK we do have a fair bit of knife crime, but it's generally contained within gangs in inner-city environments which you get everywhere anyway.

 

Arguing about it is pretty pointless as it's impossible to understand each other's views unless you become immersed in the culture you're talking about. I'm sure if I'd have grown up in middle America I'd have the same views as you.

 

Last high school shooting in the UK?

 

I never walk out feeling unsafe, scared or worried. I bet many Americans do, and for that reason, I feel sorry for them.

 

During my entire time in our public education system (that's 15 years!) I've only seen a knife carried by a student once, and that was because he was obsessed with outdoor pursuits, fishing and the like - not for any malicious intent. True, that's because I've only spent 2 years in a city school, but even then there wasn't any violence in the time I was there.

 

I'm pleased to say I too feel safe to walk pretty much anywhere whenever I want, and honestly I'd rather be attacked than be part of a culture which accepted or encouraged carrying weapons.

 

The 'founding fathers' gave the right to bear arms for a reason - they were scared of the British and anyone else who wanted their territory. That doesn't apply any more.

[kingdingeling]

Truer words have rarely been spoke Suchuwato!

[ExRoadie]

suchuwato and Silverfox

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

Sure, different cultures will view things through the filter of their own experience. As recently as the Summer of 2005 I experienced the chaos and confusion of living through Hurricane Katrina. The total loss of electricity and communication brought about a new perspective for my most liberal thinking friends. Content on relying on the "government" to provide for their safety and security, they got a rude awakening during those first frightful days when the "authorities" were too busy responding to the tragedy to provide any sense of safety or security for the individual.

 

In my neighborhood things were very quiet mostly because every single home had at least one handgun or rifle. I wore my weapon for a solid week before regular police communication and patrols were back to a sufficient level. It was refreshing to see so many people take control of their own safety and the security of others during a time of crisis.

 

Those signs shown on TV "YOU LOOT, WE SHOOT" weren't for entertainment. They were deadly serious about protecting their property and lives. We didn't have the same level of knuckleheads that made the TV from New Orleans but it could have turned out just the same by the actions of just a few people.

 

Most Americans view guns as no different than an edge weapon. Both can be used for self protection or violent acts against others. When the light of self defense is shined on a gun, the distance between you and the attacker adds a level of safety that can't be matched by edge weapons.

 

suchuwato, your statement "they were scared of the British and anyone else who wanted their territory." couldn't be further from the truth.

 

The second amendment to the US Constitution reads as "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.".

 

By definition, a "militia" is separate and distinct from the government's standing Army or Police force.

 

Additionally, your statement, "Well, the government don't have any guns, the Police and Military do - separation of powers and all that." confuses me. Aren't the Police and Military government functionaries?

[romeo55]

Back by popular demand (with due apology), here's the separated thread. Fire away.

[ExRoadie]

Back by popular demand (with due apology), here's the separated thread. Fire away.

Fire away.

 

Now THAT'S funny.

[Kash]

I'm meeting one of the attorneys from the DC v. Heller case (the one that overturned the DC gun ban) tomorrow. If I get anything useful out of him I'll be sure to post here. If anybody has any questions they'd like to ask him, I'll be sure to pass them along.