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Bailout For American Car Companies

American Automotive's BAILOUT!  

56 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think they should be bailed out?

    • Yes
      11
    • No
      10
    • Maybe
      6
    • Hell no, they don't deserve a bailout
      5
    • No, cause I hate American cars
      1
    • No, cause they got themselves into this position
      10
    • Hell to the freaking no! Why should I have to pay for their mistakes
      12
    • Foreign cars FTMFW!! boooo down with American Automotive's
      1
    • NOO!! We got our economy to worry about more than some stupid car companies
      0


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I work in the "auto industry"

Looks like you guys have some tough times ahead and I hope things work out for you.

 

But I have to disagree on a couple of points you presented.

 

All of the contracts were negotiated and agreed upon by both parties, union and company.They are both at fault.They both priced themselves out of the industry.

Who's kidding who here?! Unions are a political tool and have nothing to do with worker protections anymore. Once they got in bed with politicians, their usefulness to workers became secondary to fundraising and power. Unions have a self-protection mandate that keeps them at odds with management on every point. Without workers, a company can't build product and no one makes money. This fact keeps companies making agreements that aren't in the best interest of the company just to stay in business for a while longer.

 

Long ago unions were necessary because there was no one looking out for the welfare of the worker. Now the Government has regulated industry so tightly that unions are left to do political work and nothing else.

 

You can see the positive results of non-union plants by looking at Toyota, Honda and Nissan operations in the Southern states where productivity is the same or higher than in union controlled plants in the Northern states. Productivity is on a par with union plants around the country as well as worker safety and job satisfaction.

 

Additionally, the wholesale collapse of the "Big 3" would not result in a "depression". Quite the contrary, lost jobs would be "picked up" by other industries as well as the remaining automobile production facilities around the country.

 

The "Big 3" obviously can't continue to operate the way they've done business for the last 30 years and generate a different outcome than we've already seen. Now is the time to make a clean break from the past and try something new.

 

Unburden the "Big 3" from legacy production and see just what's possible...

http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189

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It's probably a safe bet that the "Union Bashers" haven't ever belonged to a union lol

Hard to imagine my company AT&T could make a 30% profit last year with the CWA Union collar around it's neck.

How on earth did they manage to survive ? And i make 32$ an hour. Maybe MaBell has better management.

 

I also remind you "Union Bashers" that all the provisions in the current "UAW" (United Auto Workers) contract were agreed upon by both sides.

Please educate yourselves before you bash the very thing that help create and still supports the middle class in this country.

Here is a good place to start..... http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/briefingpapers_bp143

 

:END RANT

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Unions do have a place in this country.They have helped to insure healthier/safer workplace.Extravagant pay and benefits are not all that unions do for the worker.

 

Ever heard of OSHA?

 

It's probably a safe bet that the "Union Bashers" haven't ever belonged to a union lol

 

I have belonged to a union, I used to work at UPS and I started as a union worker, and later moved to management, so I saw both sides of it there.

 

In my opinion, UAW should go. I don't think unions have a place in jobs like factory work, grocery stores, UPS, etc. A long time ago, they were a worthwhile endeavor, but as someone else said, we now have a lot of government regulation like OSHA to help keep workers safe and healthy.

 

That being said, there are still some places where unions do some good. Take for instance the electrical union, or painters union. These are organizations that individual workers can belong to to get better health benefits, access to more jobs, help finding jobs, training, etc. Very helpful, especially to someone who may be just starting out.

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OSHA in and of itself is a bumbling, ineffieicient, sorry excuse for a federal bureaucracy, but they try. Combine the red tape of OSHA with the corrupt UAW, and I pity anyone who has to comply with the standards of both. I want to make it clear that not all unions are as corrupt as the UAW. I also want to make it clear that the reason a lot of the Democrats aren't being very "aggressive" with union reform, and instead focusing on green cars and executive compensation, is because the Democratic party has the unions in their back pocket.

 

Right now something around 12-13% of our workforce is unionized. That's fine by me, our labor force is still remaining somewhat competitive that way, but what scares the hell out of me is this upcoming card check legislation that will probably succeed in unionizing a LOT more of the US work force, similar to what we saw back in the 1960s and 1970s. It's going to come up for a vote next year, and based on the congressmen we elected in November, it's most likely going to pass... please write your congressmen and say NO to chard check! Unless, of course, you prefer to see corrupt union political machines grow, and more and more businesses move their operations overseas unnecessarily... in which case, be like the rest of America and "accept" the change you voted for, for better or for worse.

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Yup.

 

What's all this talk about the GTR? It's a twin turboed v6. Yeah it's a fast car, and it looks nice. But there's something you're missing that you cant get with a v6 or a 4cyl. V8 SOUND. There's nothing quite like the sound of a v8. Most people who buy american sports cars do it because there aren't many foreign v8's; besides the luxury-sports mercedes and bmw's. You can throw all the hp and turbos you want at a v6 but you cant get that roar of a v8. There's no reason to pick a side; each company and country has their good cars and bad cars. Stop being such a Nissan fanboy. They make nice cars, but you can't just throw out some nonsense that ALL american cars are crap. It's just not true. Although, I do like the AWD that some of the newer Nissans have. Eh, I'm just tired of hearing about all these kids spout off crap about how much horsepower all these cars have, hp is just not what its all about. Besides, 400 hp is more than enough for any street driving, and more than most people know how to handle. Anything after that is more or less for the track and strip or for cock comparison.

 

 

Your right about that dude. V8's do sound awesome, but have you ever heard the Nismo exhaust on a GTR? You could probably over hear the exhaust more than the engine sound. It's freaking loud seriously. I hear that sound on the street everyday, my G37 has a Nismo exhaust and the 350Z

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Being a resident of High Point, NC, the hub of the world for rice burners and cars so loud that you lose brain cells everytime one passes you, I guess you can make any car "loud" with the right exhaust (or lack thereof). Making it sound GOOD and loud, is another story. I just like the harmonious roar of a V8. Some of the V6 import cars can sound OK, but 4 bangers... stick with the quiet mufflers, please.

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What we have is a few companies that have failed to move with trends and did not look far enough into the future. If you have a poor business plan and fail to react you can expect consequences for those actions. Businesses fail every day. Its just these are huge business icons. Anyone remember when truck prices were dirt cheap? Remember when the popularity and hence price of a pickup truck skyrocketed? They got complacent and failed to plan.

 

Combine that with the fact that the cost of the union labor and all that the union brings along with it and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

When you have to pay a laid off employee between 85% and 100% of their salary you have to wonder how the even stay afloat.

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Funny random comment.

 

I'm UAW :lol:

 

Here's how: the graduate student union @ UMass (GEO - Graduate Employee Organization) is part of UAW. Too bad students still get screwed.

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A hell of a lot. Most European diesels are designed to give a shed-load of low-end torque to make them more useful. My 1.8 TDCi Focus diesel has 300Nm (221 lb/ft) of torque, which with a remap of the ECU, will turn out 400Nm (295 lb/ft) ;) From a 1.8 litre engine with NO physical upgrades.

Yup! Turbodiesels are awesome. There's a reason Audi has won Le Mans the past 8 years running.

 

Your right about that dude. V8's do sound awesome, but have you ever heard the Nismo exhaust on a GTR? You could probably over hear the exhaust more than the engine sound. It's freaking loud seriously. I hear that sound on the street everyday, my G37 has a Nismo exhaust and the 350Z

Since when does "loud" equal "good?" :blink:

 

And we get it, you have a G37.

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The last car before this one, was the worst new car I ever bought , 1997 Camaro z28 SS, I took vacation days all the time to take it to the dealer, 6 times for an oil leak!

I paid $26,000 for it.

In 2002 I bought a Hyundia Elantra for 11,500 for my wife and a Hyundia Elantra GT Hatchback for 14,500 for me (I took the Camaro at 75,000 miles to Carmax and got 9,000).

Except for tires and shocks and batteries these cars have been great

 

If they want help they need to take a 50% paycut!

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Your right about that dude. V8's do sound awesome, but have you ever heard the Nismo exhaust on a GTR? You could probably over hear the exhaust more than the engine sound. It's freaking loud seriously. I hear that sound on the street everyday, my G37 has a Nismo exhaust and the 350Z

 

Yeah, I've heard many Nismo exhausts. They sound ok, it's nothing that gets me riled up though. Just sounds like a canny choked v6. And yes, I've heard quite a few GTR's(I live in CA close to the laguna). I've seen and heard so many g35's and 37s's drive around like idiots, and their exhaust is just not very impressive. You should almost always hear the exhaust over then engine, I've been in only a couple performance cars where it wasn't that way. Most cars with F/I, specifically supercharged cars have the very loud whine depending on how much boost they are running, but generally you can their exhaust will drown it out somewhat. Engines don't make a ton of noise usually, intake filters and exhaust is what makes the noise. Older cars have noise from the belts and supercharger or BOV, but most of your noise will always come from exhaust. If you think the GTR or g3x is loud though, you need to go to a classic car, mustang, corvette, mopar show, they'll blow your ears off. Hear an old big block with no cats and straight pipes an a huge lope, one of the best sounds ever created. If it's all about loudness for you, then imagine sitting next to one of these, you could rev all you want, and these cars would drown out your exhaust AT IDLE.

 

 

 

Edited by mrsinister

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