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Great_Gig

United States Presidential Election 2008

US Election  

144 members have voted

  1. 1. Who would you vote for?

    • Barack Obama
      90
    • John McCain
      54


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That was an era of empire. The Muslims were simply the ones on the world stage at that time. Before them it was the Persians and the Byzantines, before that it was the Romans and the Chinese, and lest we forget, the Israelites also played a part in conquering the Middle East. They all killed thousands of people, including dissidents and conquered people. Their religion served simply as a means to rally their forces and their citizens, in the grand scheme of things it means little as man will use whatever means necessary to attain power and wealth. Don't forget that Europe has had its fair share of conquest and violence under the banner of Christianity. Entire civilizations in the Western Hemisphere were wiped out in the name of God, when in reality it was all done for land and resources.

 

Your timeline of events shows nothing inherently violent about the Middle East. All it shows is that ignorant and uneducated people are easily manipulated by those in power. You may be able to make a fancy list of historical facts, but you clearly don't know how to interpret them.

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Here's a perfect example of a misleading headline.

 

"CIA’s final report: No WMD found in Iraq"

 

But, if you actually read the story, there is no definitive statement that there were no WMD's in Iraq. In fact, the story is based upon a single report issued by an "outgoing" investigator relating to his "investigation and debriefing of the WMD-related detainees".

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7634313/

 

A much more accurate headline would read, "CIA report: Nothing to see here, move along". The facts in the story do not represent what the headline insinuates.

 

^^^

 

It's crap media coverage like that that's made me stop watching the news altogether. Save for Charles Krauthammer, Brit Hume and Bill Kristol, the only thing I watch on TV is The History Channel, Mythbusters and Dirty Jobs. And since doing that I've found over the past two years that I'm much happier and better informed on most of the issues than I would be if I would've listened to media coverage of it. Go figure. 1/5th the studying, 3x the learning.

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I do however still think that including references to the works of people like Marx is probably playing on the strong negative connotations people may have when they hear names like that mentioned.

I'm not sure about that specific quote chosen at the end of the post either, which appears to me to have the same motivation.

 

Then again, I may be wrong about the motivations behind it.

I edited your quote for a very specific response.

 

To understand the "man" you must understand his teachers, his confidants, his heroes and his actions.

 

Not including all prior writings and speeches given by Barrack Obama, I can include Marx and Engels simply based upon this legislation that Barrack Obama introduced into the U.S. Senate in the current session...

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-2433

 

full text...

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-2433

 

Bottom line - Despite the amount the US already provides in aid to the rest of the world, Barrack Obama wants to "give" approximately 1% of the US Gross Domestic Product value of taxes collected from the American people to the United Nations to do with as the UN likes.

 

Now before someone posts a link to some site that claims Americans don't give enough, here's some accurate info.

 

The more than 30 member countries over at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development might have something to say to about how much America "gives" to the rest of the world.

 

A conclusion from a 2004 report...

 

"The United States is the world

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Bottom line - Despite the amount the US already provides in aid to the rest of the world, Barrack Obama wants to "give" approximately 1% of the US Gross Domestic Product value of taxes collected from the American people to the United Nations to do with as the UN likes.

 

Like inactivity on foreign policy matters regarding tyrannical dictators hell bent on the destruction of the western way of life, as well as corruption and . rings in humanitarian missions in destitute, HIV-ridden areas of the world?

 

Yep. That's exactly where I want 1% of the collective productivity of the American people going.

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I edited your quote for a very specific response.

 

To understand the "man" you must understand his teachers, his confidants, his heroes and his actions.

 

Sure, that I can agree with. All important points for considering a persons character.

You can also link Marx and Engels to any kind of social type policies if you want to, simply for the fact that yes, they fit in with certain parts of that philosophy.

 

As I stated before, main concern was that in my mind people tend to use Marx and Engels as buzz words for "communism".

I suspect if anything it is more likely in the U.S. that people will automatically think the same way, because of the country's history with that particular subject.

 

Now I think it would be somewhat extreme to suggest Obama is a Communist in some way.

I'm not necessarily saying that's what you were doing, I just hope that you can see how it may be interpreted that way. :)

 

 

 

As for the other part of your post, I'd like to say well done for introducing policy into the discussion.

That's the kind of thing that people can look at and decide for themselves if they like it (and propose sensible arguments for or against).

It's what I would like to see more of in this thread. :thumbs-up:

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I should suggest that you perhaps look into resettling in the Middle East. You guys share so much in common that you'll fit right in.

 

Rehit, what are you talking about? What extremism from the past thousand years are you referring to? The Crusades? Pretty sure that was the result of Christian aggression. The colonial revolts of the 18th and 19th centuries? Pretty sure that was in response to being colonized and brutally suppressed by foreign nations. Are you talking about the Shiite/Sunni conflict? Yea, as if Christian sects have never been at war with one another, oh wait, I forgot about Ireland <_<

 

 

you convieniently try and forget what you already posted...

you were pretty sure awhile ago...

the timeline is correct and is an accurate statement of the Muslim intent since Muhhamed was still around.

you are the one who refuses to admit reality when it slaps you between the eyes.

do not get into a history debate with a history major unless you have the tools and are actually able to admit reality...

i do know how to interpret history and have been doing so since you were in diapers...

 

oops...

i just checked your birthday.

i had my degree 9 years before you were even born.

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As I stated before, main concern was that in my mind people tend to use Marx and Engels as buzz words for "communism".

Well, when Marx and Engels collaborate on a book titled "The Communist Manifesto", it's kinda hard not to associate them with communism.

 

Or am I missing some finer point of your post?

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I wrote a whole big article on this but deleted it. I just want to say i would have liked the choice to have voted for Dennis Kucinich. But as US politics go, our leaders are pre-ordained, groomed and chosen for us. :(

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I edited your quote for a very specific response.

 

To understand the "man" you must understand his teachers, his confidants, his heroes and his actions.

 

Not including all prior writings and speeches given by Barrack Obama, I can include Marx and Engels simply based upon this legislation that Barrack Obama introduced into the U.S. Senate in the current session...

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-2433

 

full text...

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-2433

 

Bottom line - Despite the amount the US already provides in aid to the rest of the world, Barrack Obama wants to "give" approximately 1% of the US Gross Domestic Product value of taxes collected from the American people to the United Nations to do with as the UN likes.

 

Now before someone posts a link to some site that claims Americans don't give enough, here's some accurate info.

 

The more than 30 member countries over at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development might have something to say to about how much America "gives" to the rest of the world.

 

A conclusion from a 2004 report...

 

"The United States is the world

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Well, when Marx and Engels collaborate on a book titled "The Communist Manifesto", it's kinda hard not to associate them with communism.

 

Or am I missing some finer point of your post?

 

Yes, of course you can. I was just afraid that you were doing this:

 

Obama -> Marx + Engels -> Communism = Obama is a Communist

 

Anything else would just be repeating what I have already said (which the above kind of is already).

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