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ianmknight

Intel or AMD

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So at a glance this seems like a no brainer but I thought I would ask just in case I had missed something. Should I go for Intel E8500 or 6400+ AM2 and the associated up grade paths.

 

Currently I have a very nice 939 setup, Dfi venus, Opty 170 at 275x10 and 1gb Gskill RAM at ddr550. This system is just about ok for my needs at this time as I run mathematical models that take hours but I need some extra RAM as some of them are so large the system starts swapping and thing slow down. However I been unable to buy any more new ddr550 as it as just disappeared from the market and the second user stuff I have purchased as been overclocked to death and is just basically flaky.

 

So I figure the best way out is to upgrade to either AMD AM2 6400 and 2GB of DDR2 or Intel E8500 and DDR3. The but is, that I feel the upgrade path for the Intel solution is easier as it is just to wait for newer faster E8xxx CPU’s, but the AMD path is upgrade to AM2+ then change motherboards again to AM3 DDR3 next year.

 

Or have I mist something?

 

Many thanks IMK

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I think you did miss something actually

 

when i read your story, it seems that mainly the amount of ram you have is the bottleneck in your overall system performance. If the cpu required is enough with a S939 board, i dont think it really matters that the Intel's are a little bit faster when it comes to normal cpu performance. I also wonder if a quadcore wouldnt be better then a dual core in your case. And if AMD performs worse then its Intel counterpart on mathematical equations.

 

anyway, back to ram. At first, the ram controllers from AMD are simply superior to the ones that Intel has to offer. Though Intel does its best to deminish this difference, its no less true.

 

You could also wonder if getting DDR3 gives so much good at this moment. the speeds are higher, but with the latencies that come with it, especially on intel boards, the speed difference is minor

 

Also you mentioned you wonder about the future. You say that there is a clear upgrade path with intel with the E8x00 cpu's while AMD goes to S AM3. i doubt this is entirely true. the only E8X00 cpu intel will release (as far as known) is the e8600. this will be in Q3. the speed gain compared to the current E8500 and E8400 is minor, so its not a valid upgrade when you already have an intel cpu. After that, Q4 2008 or Q1 2009 the new intel cpu's are released working on a new socket, so no more LGA775 after that

 

As for AMD, they will do the same thing. AM3 should come, bringing DDR3 to the amd desktops. so basically, at the end of the year, no matter what you buy now, you are on an old socket.

 

DDR3 vs DDR2

I wonder if the difference is all that much. high valued DDR2 often performs just as well as the DDR3 sticks. when you got with AMD the latencies that intel has to suffer diminish. Also i doubt that DDR3 will make huge leaps forward just this next few months. i think the big leap will come with the new sockets from both the CPU companies.

 

What is best? i cant tell. both AMD and Intel have so very strong good point, and some weak points. I wonder where the program you use puts the major load. on cpu, ram, both etc. if its on ram, id go for AMD probebly. if its cpu, then intel quadcore.

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So Repr many thanks for your input and well to cover a cople of points the issue of core numbers above two is little pointless in my situation and as my math model stuff is single threaded and I am not going to re-write it for multi-threading. (So one core running flat out and the other mostly idle doing some I/O etc.) But many thanks for the advice re 775 I had not realised that it was on its way in twelve or so, also given what you say about ddr2/ddr3 speed v latence then it seems much of a muchness which one to go at this time other than ddr3 investment may have a longer life should I find I move back to AM3.

 

I guess the really question should then be "does anyone have any idea of AM3 core speed and cache size are the going to be hits 5Ghz"?

 

Again many thanks IMK

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judging from your post im assuming you need a fast cpu, but multi-threading isnt an option.

your best bet for the moment would probebly be a 8400, if you consider price. those will clock very high. maybe a bit less then e8500, but its much cheaper.

 

as for the future, there are too many unknowns to say anything thatll stand ground for sure, though i very much doubt either intel nor AMD is likely to hit the 5ghz on a single core

 

also, when waiting for the new generation of cpu's, the new intel platform and AM3 changes every thing i said in my previous post about ram speeds. not only do i guess itll utilize ddr3 much better, also the biggest point i made for AMD, the on chip dram controller that makes it better with memory will been gone. Intel has learned from there past mistakes, and the new cpu's will have intergrated memory controllers, just like the AMD's. in theory, thisll mean that both Intel and AMD will utilize the ram in the same efficiency. Its more likely that AMD will still have a little edge, they done this for years, but the difference will not be enough to consider AMD if they keep lagging behind with cpu core architecture as they do now compared to Intel

 

another thing that might be interesting, is that Intel plans to remove overclocking from its budget and mainstream cpu's. since they are going to try to integrate the current NB it might actually be true. If this happens, it means that AMD could again get an edge against Intel IF they make there AM3 cpu's with a good option to OC, making it much more interesting for anyone with above avarage hardware knowledge. but remember this is all guessing, unconfirmed and based on rumours.

 

if you want a new system now, invest in a good mobo, highspeed ram and very good cooling. though 5ghz is unlikely to be reached with the current cpu's on a 24/7 basis, 4.0-4.5 could very well be within reach. Also, since DDR2 is almost free these days you would be able to get a nice 8GB DDR2 system at 1066mhz dual channel without much trouble or insane costs. DDR2 1200 is also an option, though i think that after 1066 (pc2-8500) the prices shoot upwards to where you can doubt if its worth the effort.

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ian;

 

Gigabyte GA-EX38-DS4

Intel E8400

OCZ, Corsair or G.Skill 2X2gb

Cooling - Pick your flavor of good H20 or great aircooling for cpu

 

Clock your E8400 to 3.8-4.0ghz and let her rip.

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Wevsspot, Repr again many thanks for both your input.

And well I guess my question is answered if I want to double my CPU speed today inasmuch as Intel looks the best for raw cpu speed and I guess the extra Cache will have a goodly improvment as well.

 

As a final point as my application requirement is not be to far from what the FOLDING and SETI guys need what are top of the benches for thoes apps.

 

Again many thanks for your input and by the way which 775 DDR? Mobo are you recommending?

 

IMK

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id go for the Gigabyte GA-EX38-DS4 or an EVGA 750I board. i hear the last are great clockers as well.

 

and about folding.....make the mathematical equations then on your radeon 3870X2 on the X38 board. i heard folding works great on graphic cards

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ian,

 

there are a lot of great boards out there right now. even a bunch of the P35 boards are outstanding. just pick a board based on your needs and your budget. i only recommended the x38 gigabyte board because i'm using one right now and it has been perfect. so to some extent you get "built in" tech support because i'm here at the Street quite a bit. i see that Repr is using the Asus Rampage so it must be a good board too. and i surely wouldn't discount the eVGA offerings either.

 

if you go with a nVidia chipset you'll get SLi support (depending on the board), and if you go with an Intel chipset you'll get Crossfire support (depending on the board), if that is of any interest to you.

 

i haven't played around with any of the nVidia chipset boards that support the Intel processors, mainly because the last two Intel builds I've done were with m/b's that had an Intel chipset. the builds were a breeze and everything just worked exactly the way it should. no jumping through hoops, scratching my head, looking for that certain BIOS tweak that was going to make the computer boot. that was a nice thing :)

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