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defiant9

Legal and Ethical?

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No, he wanted to know whether it would result in a legit license, specifically defining the scope of his question within the bounds of what is "legal and ethical". That's a legal thing, not a "it works so I guess you could do it" thing.

 

what do you mean....if he Qualifies the Retail Upgrade with a OEM copy will the retail licence be legit..?

 

if thats your answer...? then my answer is yes it will...

 

only time a licence isnt legit is if you install the same copy on more than 1 rig....(they do log IPs and can tell you where every rig is with that copy installed on it...I know that for sure)

 

only difference is that a OEM copy isnt as transferable as a retail copy is...

 

OEM is married to the rig it was originally installed...once the Mother-board and the case is changed the rig is no longer original and the licence is invalid by the EULA but thats a very grey area...

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In other words I own an OEM XP, can I install it on a different PC, then re-install the XP upgrade version for registration?

If he has a machine currently using a legit OEM license that is a qualifying product, he can install the retail upgrade on that machine, yes.

 

If he has a legit OEM copy that was never preinstalled or previously installed onto any machine (e.g. System Builder Pack), he can install it onto any machine he wants (binding it to that machine), then apply the retail upgrade to that machine as long as the base OS is a qualifying product, yes.

 

If he has an OEM copy that is already bound to one machine, he cannot use that as a qualifying product to upgrade "a different PC". You cannot 'upgrade' thin air. If the machine to be upgraded does not currently have a legitimate license for any qualifying product, the retail upgrade doesn't 'create' a new license where one did not exist before.

 

In the third scenario, only a full version is permitted to be installed (retail or OEM). The only reason to do what he is asking about is to avoid having to purchase a qualifying product in the first place. Get it?

 

What did you think was the distinction between upgrade and full versions, cost?

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I think the key point is will it work for activation purposes and is it going to show as a genuine version.

If you do as dr_bowtie suggests then it will work and will satisfy the above.

 

But it is illegal and unethical so if you have trouble sleeping use the ME CD to qualify the upgrade.

Which is a retail version that you no longer use, yes? ;).

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All I have are Xp Pro upgrade CD's. I had to get a windows 95 CD from my aunt that i use to do a fresh full install(I use the same win 95 for the 3 xp installs)

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If he has a machine currently using a legit OEM license that is a qualifying product, he can install the retail upgrade on that machine, yes.

 

If he has a legit OEM copy that was never preinstalled or previously installed onto any machine (e.g. System Builder Pack), he can install it onto any machine he wants (binding it to that machine), then apply the retail upgrade to that machine as long as the base OS is a qualifying product, yes.

 

If he has an OEM copy that is already bound to one machine, he cannot use that as a qualifying product to upgrade "a different PC". You cannot 'upgrade' thin air. If the machine to be upgraded does not currently have a legitimate license for any qualifying product, the retail upgrade doesn't 'create' a new license where one did not exist before.

 

In the third scenario, only a full version is permitted to be installed (retail or OEM). The only reason to do what he is asking about is to avoid having to purchase a qualifying product in the first place. Get it?

 

What did you think was the distinction between upgrade and full versions, cost?

 

 

I think the key point is will it work for activation purposes and is it going to show as a genuine version.

If you do as dr_bowtie suggests then it will work and will satisfy the above.

 

But it is illegal and unethical so if you have trouble sleeping use the ME CD to qualify the upgrade.

Which is a retail version that you no longer use, yes? ;).

 

 

it all depends how you look at the situation....?

 

when you supply a Retail "Upgrade" disk for fresh installation it just ask for a Qualifying disk to continue...it just want to make sure YOU own a legit copy of windows to qualify the install....so it doesnt ask if it was previously installed on that rig or not...

 

but if you look at it like this...MS has you use another disk installed on another rig to Qualify the Installs on multiple rigs...mainly a "OEM" disk...

 

when I OPK multiple rig it installs from the original "OEM" disk I started the OPK with...so in essence I am installing my "OEM" disk on multiple machines and using the OEM keys to the new disk...

 

Doing it just the way MS trained me to do so...

 

I was also trained to "fresh" install the retail-upgrade this way...if it wasnt legal or ethical MS wouldnt have instructed us to do so in training.... there you have it...

 

same thing only different....plus you have to look at if it wasnt legal or ethical would it even let you Qualify the upgrade with a better OEM copy? it was built that way for a reason...;)

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I'm no where near as experienced or trained as Doc is on all of the in's and out's of this topic. But I can give you my "ethical" "is it right?" opinion.

 

I have an OEM Copy of Windows that came with the purchase of a mass produced desktop or laptop PC.

 

I have a copy of a Windows XP Upgrade disk that I purchased legally.

 

If I legally obtained both of these I believe I'm entitled to use them any way I see fit AS LONG AS neither of them is installed on more than one machine. For me that is the line in the sand. I own the OS, the OS license is good for one machine. End of story.

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I was also trained to "fresh" install the retail-upgrade this way...if it wasnt legal or ethical MS wouldnt have instructed us to do so in training.... there you have it...

Can we finally dispose with the obviously unwanted discussion about whether he "can" do this or that completely outside the context he asked about? The guy specifically asked whether it was 'legal and ethical'. Was he supposed to put it in bold freaking letters? Would this have been any more helpful for some to understand the question?

 

"Is it FREAKING LEGAL to do this?"

 

Its a good thing he didn't come asking for tax advise. I can just see it now:

 

"Is claiming my dog as a dependent on my taxes legal? How about my stuffed pookie bear?"

 

"Well...it would depend on what the meaning of 'is' is." - Dr. Bowtie, Tax Advisor to the Stars (e.g. Wesley Snipes)

 

An upgrade license is not a back door to acquiring a qualifying product. An upgrade is for users who have a qualifying product, to upgrade that qualifying product. A full version is for users who don't have a qualifying product. Part of the criterion for "qualifying" is that it is legit. No legit = no qualify.

 

Microsoft includes a method to use upgrade media as a full install specifically because upgrades don't always succeed for obvious reasons of added complexity. In the interests of those users who are entitled to an upgrade discount but are unable to use the product as an upgrade because it won't complete successfully, Microsoft lets them perform a clean install rather than lock the media down strictly to upgrades then saying "So sorry for you, now you'll have to purchase the full version even though you are entitled to an upgrade discount. Thanks!"

 

I feel as though I have been time-warped back to my more formidable years of around 13 years of age, where my self-absorbed childish mind and those of my like-aged friends could only think about our own gratification and how to take advantage of loop-holes that were never intended for us, then try to justify it so that we could feel righteous and ethical in doing so.

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Doesnt matter....I know what MS has trained me as acceptable installation....how you interpret the understanding is your opinion...

 

As for the time-warp to younger years...I can see that...loud and clear

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I feel as though I have been time-warped back to my more formidable years of around 13 years of age, where my self-absorbed childish mind and those of my like-aged friends could only think about our own gratification and how to take advantage of loop-holes that were never intended for us, then try to justify it so that we could feel righteous and ethical in doing so.

 

or maybe most of us on staff are MS Partners and we've had it explained in detail exactly what can and cannot be done while you...who knows what you know? Surely not a lot from what I can see in this thread so far.

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Doesnt matter....I know what MS has trained me as acceptable installation....how you interpret the understanding is your opinion...

And Microsoft's. I've been a registered Microsoft OEM Partner for years now and have done the baseline licensing, installation, and preinstallation competency exams required to qualify for Microsoft marketing collateral and 'buy local' incentives when I purchase Microsoft product from Authorized Distributors such as Ingram Micro and D&H Distribution. Loving my Microsoft Action Pack subscription, BTW.

 

I'm not expounding on my opinion, but Microsoft EULA and other applicable terms or policies, which it has never been inconsistent about or trained anyone to depart from. 'Some dude' loosely associated with Microsoft might have 'trained' you with a wink-wink that upgrade media can be used to circumvent the requirement to have a qualifying full product, but not Microsoft.

 

I might be able to get a real Microsoft representative to come explain it to you, if you like? I don't have a lot of pull with Microsoft, but I got a little.

 

As for the time-warp to younger years...I can see that...loud and clear

The point was more that it is a hallmark of youth to be self-absorbed and concerned only about one's own gratification, to hell with things like principles and rules that - in the view of a child - are nothing more than barriers to getting their way. I've never encountered an adolescent that proved otherwise.

 

The thing is, you're supposed to grow out of it no later than 18...23 at the very latest. When you encounter a group of supposed adults who still view every system as one to be gamed, always looking to exploit the loop-hole for their own benefit, something went seriously wrong in their development.

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or maybe most of us on staff are MS Partners and we've had it explained in detail exactly what can and cannot be done while you...who knows what you know? Surely not a lot from what I can see in this thread so far.

Oh hey! I'm willing to provide my Partner ID as verification if you are. I don't have my profile and organization details set to be searchable, but I can easily change that. You first.

 

I'm sure Microsoft would love to know about Registered Partners who are in such need of remedial and immediate licensing re-education, don't you agree?

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Oh hey! I'm willing to provide my Partner ID as verification if you are. I don't have my profile and organization details set to be searchable, but I can easily change that. You first.

 

I'm sure Microsoft would love to know about Registered Partners who are in such need of remedial and immediate licensing re-education, don't you agree?

 

I'm sure they would laugh at your idiocy honestly. Are you trying for a game of one-upsmanship? Because it's quite a lame attempt of "I'm smarter than you" or "I'm bigger than you", and shows childishness on your part.

 

However, if you wish to call Microsoft and try to 'rat' us out, be my guest. Nothing will come of it (we've been through this before, you won't be the first jackass and you won't be the last either). But go ahead and stroke your ego, it is of no concern to us.

 

In the meantime, we'll catch you on another forum at another time because honestly, we don't need jerkoff members like you around here who think they are smarter than everyone else and register only to try and prove their e-penis is larger and more fertile than the rest of us.

 

Jackasses like you are a dime a dozen on the internet (actually about $.04 per 100,000 because for morons like you, the internet is the most fertile breeding ground ever imagined).

 

Go cry to your mommy or Bill Gates or whoever you cry to when someone questions your....authority on Microsoft licensing? Honestly, who xxxxing cares, no one around here does, and no one will miss you, but as I've said a few times now, stroke yourself and do whatever you have to do to get yourself off, but just don't do it around here because we've no time for idiots like you.

 

Good day, thread closed.

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