Military Agreement

[red930]

Bush is a moron, period. Just listen to bush speak standing next to Clinton. The difference is like night and day. Clinton is ten X's smarter than bush.

 

...

 

 

Now back to bush's mushbrains. He couldn't even hold his own during the debates with Kerry! Remember after how badly he fudged the first one, they implanted a hearing aid, (that box sticking out of bushes back) and there were pictures of it on television, and tv news web sites, so don't even tell me I'm wrong on that!

 

He had to be instructed on what to say and when to say it and to keep his composure, because during the 1st debate, he looked at Kerry like he was amazed, dumbfounded, flabergasted, and did badly. So bad, bush and co. feared that they can't send their boy back out there defensless, so they gave him a "box of brains", and i bet Carl was talking to him. Why do you think they called him Carl Rove "bushes brains?"

 

BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY!! So it was easy for many americans to believe the snopes link you posted about bush and clinton's IQ's.

 

There is a massive difference between being an idiot and being able to speak well. Keep in mind half of speaking well in political debates is the ability to bull crap, and Clinton (among with many other politicians) can bull crap with the best of them.

 

Speaking is such a small, insignificant facet of being President that it is an absolute shame that some judge Bush so heavily on it, maybe it's just because it's the only thing people are familiar with about him and don't bother to look up anything else he's done besides run a war and speak. I say insignificant because virtually nobody watches these things, and just base their opinions on whatever the mouthbreather next to them says.

 

Moron huh?

 

Where did Bush go to college at? And don't give me some bull crap about his "low" GPA, or his daddy "buying" his way into it.

 

1. Regardless of GPA, graduating from such a tough school is more a sign of determination than anything else. Some of the smartest people I've known through college are the guys that simply put in the effort to get by - they're so much more knowledgeable than the vast majority of the nerds putting in 40 hours a week of studying it's not even funny. Common sense along with learning about the REAL world go a helluva lot farther IN the real world than studying your butt off. Guess what? Drugs and alcohol are part of it too. I never want to see a President (especially in this age group) that absolutely claims to have never tried drugs at some point. Why? Because either they're lying, or they're completely out of touch with the people they're supposed to represent and protect.

 

2. It is awfully common to say that Bush "rode his father's coattails" to where is now. Yeah, because since when did anybody really ever like Bush Sr.? To say that his spot at Harvard was bought and paid for is just ignorant, and short of you or anyone else having proof of it then there is no reason to state it as fact. For that matter, that shows a severe lack of respect for one of the most esteemed institutions in the world, not to mention the President.

 

He's just a texas redneck spioled brat that was lucky enough to ride his daddy's coatails into the oil business, in which he drive every single one into the ground, including when he bought the Texas Rangers. That was a flop too. Every single job bush had, he failed at, depending on dada and his financiers to bail him out.

 

Cool, because nobody else has been unlucky in business ventures before. You really concentrate on oil a lot, you know that? You ever think that maybe all that is bull crap, given the way the cost of it has been increasing anyways? Just a thought, I'll leave you to your own delusions.

 

Edit on the Rangers: Looks like he made hella money on them after he sold his share.

 

Bush moved with his family to Washington' date=' D.C., in 1988, to work on his father's campaign for the U.S. presidency.[29'] Returning to Texas after the campaign, Bush purchased a share in the Texas Rangers baseball franchise in April 1989, where he served as managing general partner for five years.[30] Bush actively led the team's projects and regularly attended its games, often choosing to sit in the open stands with fans.[31] The sale of Bush's shares in the Rangers in 1998 brought him over US$15 million from his initial US$800,000 investment.[32]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush

 

Of course you could argue that while he made money the franchise was driven into the ground (which is possible, I honestly don't know). But then I'd argue that it's a baseball team anyways, and should have been driven into the ground (literally) decades earlier.

 

And to grade you on YOUR post about us not being attacked, when you say "One fact remains true amongst all the noise. Despite a determined enemy, there have been exactly zero successful attacks on US soil since 9/11."

 

It is a fact that the Clinton admin, the cia, nsa and fbi had informed the bush admin that they suspected an attack on american soil BY FLYING PLANES INTO BUIDLINGS, and he ignored them, and not only that, he went and attacked a country that had nothing to do with the attack on the twin towers. He was right in going to afghanistan and going after Bin Laden, remember the "he wanted him dead or alive" town sheriif mentallity?

 

Ignored?

 

1. If it WAS ignored, it's very, very unlikely that Bush would have been involved in that. As if the CIA calls him up every single day to let him know whats going on and he tells them what to concentrate on.

 

2. 'Lol' at thinking anything could be done about it anyways, not to mention dwelling on it. Hindsight is always 20/20 my friend, sure there were signs but putting together the clues doesn't exactly work like a Nancy Drew book. Even if everything is there in front of you, you just might not see it until it's too late. . happens. Sometimes you can't do anything about it.

 

3. I see a lot of people complaining about the war in Iraq now. At the time of course nobody really gave a ., but of course people go back to the 'WMD' bit and say they were tricked. I'm sure Democrats (as well as some Republicans) have used that excuse many a time. Great, he (oh wait, the people he had working for him) were wrong about the 'WMDs'. And yet it was taken as common knowledge that Hussein wanted them, and had been trying to get them for some time. So is it really believable that there may have been some there when you take into account that knowledge along with the intelligence reports about them?

 

Sometimes defending the country require preemptive action. You can't always wait until planes run into buildings before you decide to do something about it. Oh wait, was that what you were recommending he do based on the intelligence the CIA had gathered under Clinton? Hmm...can't have it both ways. Either you act on the information you have or you don't, either way you have to live with the results.

 

But even that didn't last long. He no longer cares about catching Bin laden. He got his war, his riches, his "claim to fame by being a war president".

 

Um....dunno about that one man. I'll bet there's still a very hefty bounty on him. Just because he doesn't bring it up in speeches doesn't mean he doesn't want him found. Hell, given how long the search has taken it's probably more of a move on his part to keep people from dwelling on the failure to capture him. By the way, I don't say his failure to capture Bin Laden because quite frankly he has nothing to do with it, other than to tell people to do what the can to find and capture him.

 

And he offered millions for his capture? After Hans Blix and the un inspectors had reported their were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, (bush planned the attack before he even took office)-remember, he's an oil man! He tells Blix to go . in his hat.

 

And Joe Wilson reported that the claims that Saddam hussain was seeking yellowcake uranium in niger were false, (something bush didn't want to hear,) so he sicked Carl Rove on him and bush and co. exposed Valerie Plames identity to try to discredit him.

 

In the meantime, bush was already bombing iraq, trying to goad Saddam into a retaliation, giving bush an excuse to launch the attack, which he was having a hard time trying to get congressional approval for. Their never was ANY al-qaida in Iraq. At least not until bush sent our troops there. The fact was, Saddam hated al-qaida.

 

And the fact that the downing street memo said that the bush admin was fixing the facts to justify the war, and illegal attack on a country that never provoked us, but we have been damaging that country for 10 years with sanctions and bombing raids. We have killed over a million Iraq people over time by poisening their water system, sanctions, covert bombing raids

 

Hmm...probably should have quoted that earlier. Anyways, I think I covered that, or close to.

 

And to dispute your sentence; " Despite a determined enemy, there have been exactly zero successful attacks on US soil since 9/11.

 

I feel safer already.

 

Well, i'm glad you do because there WEREN'T any attacks on US soil UNTIL BUSH took office and IGNORED the warnings of a planned attack. The attack was in the planning stages during the Clinton admin, and the cia and i think fbi and nsa had intel about it, and like i said, they warned bush and when he was told about the planes, he just sat there. HE SAT THERE for 7 minutes.

 

Yes, by that logic this rock I have here repels tigers. Don't believe me? Well I don't see any tigers around so I guess it must be so.

 

Keep in mind the CIA and the like are very good at what they do. I would NOT be surprised to find out that there have been weird things planned both before and after the attacks in September that have been thwarted and not been reported. Why? Because the xxxxing public would freak out since the vocal ones are a bunch of pussies. It's exactly like the whole "1 child every hour get abducted" or some bull crap. Stupid parents freak out and apparently don't realize the chances of it happening to them is still around 0.000006%.

 

As for sitting there? I still fail to get the point of this argument. Okay, so he knew it was going to happen on that particular day? Break out those tin-foil hats Travis, I'm gonna want to double up on this one!

 

Who cares if he sat there, maybe he did it to keep the kids calm. Maybe he enjoyed the book he was reading, maybe the Secret Service recommended that he do exactly what he did. Who knows, how about we dwell on this too.

 

Why were many of our air force interceptor jets stationed 140 miles away in Virginia at the time? Why werent jets scrambled immediatly to head those airliners off?

 

Scratch that Travis, I'm gonna want three hats. You do realize that if, and that's a massive if, the government knew about it happening and allowed it to happen just the xxxxing massive number of people that would be involved?? Just how many air traffic controllers reported it?? Just how many low-ranking Air Force dudes watching it happen and just letting it go by?? Or actually obeying their officer when told to not tell anybody about it??

 

Now THERE are some stinky facts. Bush is a corrupt moron and has driven our once great nation into the ground. It will take a lot of work to repair our country, economy, relationships with other countries, (bush doesn't like to be friendly and visit other countries much, and has great distain for the UN, which he would like to see disolved.)

 

Fact what?

 

"driven our country into the ground" huh? I'm pretty sure it was heading that way without anything he did. How about you blame the ENTIRE Senate too, because quite franly they have done a piss-poor xxxxing job. Checks and f'n balances man, if you really think that Bush has done that much bad then someone else along the way xxxxed up bigtime too.

 

He has made the rich richer, the poor poorer, oh, i forgot to mention the fact that while he was chearleading our troops on, calling on America to support georgies war, he CUT SOLDERS PAY AND BENIFITS! That's another news fact that i heard on tv network news, their websites and many other news sources. Including the NY times, Washington Post, among others. This is well documented. And Rummy says, "you don't go to war with what you want, you go to war with what you have! Basicaly he told our soldiers to shut up and eat it.

 

I'm gonna say the poor get poorer by their own choice, and that tax cuts for the rich SHOULD happen. The tax system we have right now is so stupid it makes me want to shoot the guy that invented it. And yeah, if you need to go to war you go to war with you have. After Clinton crippled the military what are you supposed to do? You can't just hang out for two years getting ready and THEN go.

 

Troops had to buy their own armour if they could afford it. Meanwhile soldiers were getting killed and wonded and driven insane and committing suicide over this needless, sensless war that is a pack of lies sold to congress and the American public so the oil people could get rich. How do you justify all those no-bid contracts by Halliburton-(cheney used to be a board memver and is getting filthy rich, and is now talking about attacking Iran with Mcain, Kellog, Brown and Root, which dumbo's daddy sits on the board, Blackwater, that get paid way more than our soldiers, and our soldiers greatly resent that. And they are not held accountable for cold blooded murder, but our soldiers are.

How do you think that makes them feel? What are they supposed to think?

 

Bush wanted sooo badly to be a "war president". Now he has a new approval rating. 30. Congress is even lower for not stopping him, which we tried to do by putting the cowardly dems in power, to impeach these dummies. Wake up Ex roadie...this is about profiteering, not about doing what's right. People and their blind patri-ism. So you can take your "f" back.

Peace.

jaz

 

Yes, because impeaching has proven it's worth in the past anyways. The Dems were voted in because people thought they might care about their opinions more. Turns out they're just as corrupt as their Republican counterparts.

 

Blind patriotism huh?

 

I call what you have done blind as well. Why? Because you just concentrate on so few things about this President. Next President you'll probably claim is the greatest ever simply because he/she didn't have to go through running a xxxxin war or two, while dealing with a number of catastrophies as well. And maybe he'll deserve it, maybe the new guy will have a much better team backing him up, maybe he'll get lucky and make the right choice (at the time) and look just awesome overall.

 

Maybe.

 

I find that so many people seem to forget that despite the power we wield, we are not infallible. It comes down to people making decisions. The government is like any other team and makes decisions together. Yes, there are the "corrupt". Why lobbying is still legal is beyond me. But the point is that while Bush might be the figurehead of our country, he is not even close to the only one at fault for what some deem unacceptable behavior.

 

Would I have done differently in some case?

 

Maybe. Maybe even probably. I can't possibly know what information he had to work on when decisions had to be made.

 

"wanted to be a war president?"

 

Are you xxxxing kidding me? No President EVER wanted to be in a war. No President EVER has looked good during a war. And you can damn well bet he knew exactly how the public would take it, considering the MASSIVE exposure this war received over ever other war, ever. Some choices aren't made to make yourself look good, and I'll bet that while you might not approve of this war other people (including Bush) came to the conclusion that it was best for the country.

 

You're welcome to be negative about it. But you're kidding yourself to think that it'd be any different if we had a different President.

 

-Dan

 

"http://www.commondreams.org/"?

 

Really?

 

Bet that's an impartial site to gain your info from.

 

No rant Travis? I'm disappointed.

[jaz]

Dan, if you looked at the links i posted from common dreams, of which site is comprised of independent reporters, yeah, people who aren't corporate cencored lapdogs and tell the truth, whether or not you like it, or disagree, are filled with articles by political science majors, college professors and noted historians like Howard Zinn, Noahm Chomsky, Barbera Eirihright, Auhrundati Roy, among many, many others. And if you really bothered to even LOOK at the links, you'll see those articles were published in major newspapers, Dan.

 

Sounds like you and ex roadie share many beliefs. That's ok. I respect peoples rights to their own opinions. I get my news from real news sources, not from fox news. And i even have a "built-in filter" to read in between the lines and listen to what tv news stations (all corporate owned, All corrupt-cencoring-muzzling tv reporters, (the dumbing down of America). And to what they are NOT talking about.

 

Notice you hear very little about the war on tv anymore? Gee, i wonder why? cuz people might not like what they see? And get disgusted by what they see and dissent? That would be bad news for war profiteers, Dan.

 

As for bush going through Y-ale, c'mon...the bush family is the most powerful family in the world. And bush is the most dangerous, most powerful man in the world. Cheney and Mcain are just dying to bomb Iran. What's with all the f'n violence with the repugs? And yes, i will agree with you the democrats are no better, you seem to ignore the fact i mention congress approval is even lower that dumbya's.

 

I wince every time i watch him attempt a speech, mangling the english language. Eloquent he is NOT! Oh, they don't require a certain amount of that for such a pristine collage as yale? c'mon, Dan, there was no influence to pass dumbo through? If you believe that, then i got a nice deteriorating bridge to sell you.

 

Sorry for it's rotting condition, you see, because of this illegal, immoral, corrupt devastating war in Iraq, joe public's tax dollars now are diverted from improving our own infrastructure, taking care of our own needy, hungry, homeless people to fighting a people who didn't ask for our help, don't want us there, and hate us for our illegal occupation, murder and torture of middle eastern people...God, i could just go on and on, there certainly is enough corruption to fill this entire forum, and i won't try to change your beliefs.

 

And I'm not being negative about anything. I'm just not drinking the kool-aid. Have another glass. And while you're at it, try turning off your tv and got online and read some real news, from independent reporters, like my friend that had 5 years of news footage stolen from him by the Vietcong before he left Vietnam. He used to work for CBS, but quit and went independent after he learned about the republican quest to dumb down America.

 

I learned a lot from him, and other reportes just like him, who try to preserve integrity in reporting, not the . repugs try to dumb us down with. What's Bushes major advice to the American people? Go shopping! His cure-all to stimulate the economy? We all get these stimulus tax checks now so we can go to walmart and other corporations end up with the money. WAKE UP AMERICA!!!! We are being lied to and ripped off!

 

Try reading some news from millitary corruption .com. Oh, there is no corruption in the military? Sorry. Wrong again. Guess I'm not right about much these days. But if you and ex roadie are right, I'd rather be wrong.

 

And Dumbo WAS planning on attacking iraq before he even took office. This has been a republican plan for quite a while, and like i said, I learned quite a bit while i was fighting to save Pacifica Radio. That's where i learned from multiple independent news sources about the rise of the military-industrial-corporate-prison complex's rise to power.

 

Dan, respectfully, I bet you never even heard of cointelpro. Can you tell me what it stands for?

Oh, here's one for the road...(no pun intended)

 

Telling Bush the Truth Is Costly;

Published on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 by the Seattle Post-Intelligencer

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/24/7876/

[Branjo]

We haven't been attacked since 9/11 because it was a complete success, it did what it was supposed to, unite America behind a common enemy, "FEAR" with fear you can make people believe anything you want.

 

Al Quesadilla had damn all to do with it, the proof is right there and im not talking about conspiracy theories im talking about the actual 9/11 commission, You could drive a xxxxing bus through the gaps in it. Planes disintegrating on impact, Something that has never happened EVER yet every camera that would have shown and proved it did was confiscated and probably destroyed. No Steel Building in history has fallen due to fire EVER, the Empire State building got hit by a god damned B52 Bomber burned for 12 hours and is still standing 30+ years later. 2 buildings get hit by planes burn for less than an hour and both fall down and a third just falls down with a few choice floors on fire all on the same day, The terrorists that were supposed to be on the planes, 5 of them woke up the next day in their own beds bought the newspaper and learned they had just flown a plane into a building across the planet and their passports that were on the planes landed on the ground when not one readable piece of paper survived the collapses. Im sorry guys but for those of you who don't think something is wrong with that, your 100% De De Dee.

 

The people controlling Bush and probably many presidents before him and after him, need the Oil, the Natural Gas and the Opium for their stranglehold of power to continue. They will do anything and everything to keep it. These "controllers" have no sense of patriotism or loyalty to any nation or any country, We don't matter to them. We don't owe them damn all but our utter contempt.

 

Another Documentary from another point of view, Dispute it at your leisure.

 

"Who killed John O'Neil"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3857917663523144457

[red930]

Dan' date=' if you looked at the links i posted from common dreams, of which site is comprised of independent reporters, yeah, people who aren't corporate cencored lapdogs and tell the truth, whether or not you like it, or disagree, are filled with articles by political science majors, college professors and noted historians like Howard Zinn, Noahm Chomsky, Barbera Eirihright, Auhrundati Roy, among many, many others. And if you really bothered to even LOOK at the links, you'll see those articles were published in major newspapers, Dan.[/quote']

 

And if you bothered to read them, you'd notice lines like this:

 

The change of command in the Persian Gulf also comes as a time when the U.S. is marking the fifth year in a mindless war with no end in sight.

 

Go ahead and tell me that isn't opinionated. The links are full of similar comments, which is why I don't give any ounce of credit to the site - they have their own agenda. Just because an article makes it into the paper is meaningless. Poli Sci majors are, as a whole, retarded. Professors are, generally, very liberal.

 

An impartial site would list more news than just bad news, which is all liberals bother with anymore. Is there no liberal that actually recognizes how war works? How terrible it is? It's like people were for the war then later found out that people die. People on our side, on the other side, and yes, people on neither side. It isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

 

If war happen, people die. That simple.

 

Your article basically summed that up by saying people dying is bad. Yeah, I suppose you're right. It's going to happen. People will get pissed off at us for it, that happens too.

 

As for Petreus' failure....okay?

 

And Cheney lying? What else is new? And hell, maybe he isn't, who even knows anymore. Yeah, he wants to deal with Iran, so does McCain. And who's to say that's wrong? Just like Iraq before it, who's to say that if we don't do anything about them now that it won't come back 5 years later to blow up in our faces? Everybody has a stance, not everybody can be right, and something changes, nobody will know who was right.

 

 

Sounds like you and ex roadie share many beliefs. That's ok. I respect peoples rights to their own opinions. I get my news from real news sources, not from fox news. And i even have a "built-in filter" to read in between the lines and listen to what tv news stations (all corporate owned, All corrupt-cencoring-muzzling tv reporters, (the dumbing down of America). And to what they are NOT talking about.

 

Notice you hear very little about the war on tv anymore? Gee, i wonder why? cuz people might not like what they see? And get disgusted by what they see and dissent? That would be bad news for war profiteers, Dan.

 

Geez, you're starting to sound like Travis. Here's the answer though: clearly there isn't enough time for the war when Angelina Jolie is having kids and Britney Spears is almost as messed up as I am.

 

I won't go into my rant about people slamming Fox News again, but here's ahint of my view: it isn't worse than ANY of the others. Not a one. They all suck so terribly bad that there is no reason to slam Fox News anymore. And at least Fox is affiliated with things that make me laugh a little, so that actually gives them a slight edge! Not that I bother watching any news anymore, that's my work-out time...

 

As for bush going through Y-ale, c'mon...the bush family is the most powerful family in the world. And bush is the most dangerous, most powerful man in the world. Cheney and Mcain are just dying to bomb Iran. What's with all the f'n violence with the repugs? And yes, i will agree with you the democrats are no better, you seem to ignore the fact i mention congress approval is even lower that dumbya's.

 

I still say that a "preventative war", if you will, may be the best course of action depending on the info we actually have. And who the hell knows what that is...

 

 

And yeah, I caught that bit at the end. Just didn't back to change what was already written.

 

 

I wince every time i watch him attempt a speech, mangling the english language. Eloquent he is NOT! Oh, they don't require a certain amount of that for such a pristine collage as yale? c'mon, Dan, there was no influence to pass dumbo through? If you believe that, then i got a nice deteriorating bridge to sell you.

 

I'd buy it if I had money to blow. Yes, I'm sure at least a little influence helped him get there, after all I'm sure recommendation letters are required and he'd be able to get those easier than the average bear. Just taking a course or two on speaking does not make one a good speaker, nor is it a prerequisite for graduation. It's a college, a place for learning. Doesn't mean you have to be a stud at every class or everything you do.

 

Sorry for it's rotting condition, you see, because of this illegal, immoral, corrupt devastating war in Iraq, joe public's tax dollars now are diverted from improving our own infrastructure, taking care of our own needy, hungry, homeless people to fighting a people who didn't ask for our help, don't want us there, and hate us for our illegal occupation, murder and torture of middle eastern people...God, i could just go on and on, there certainly is enough corruption to fill this entire forum, and i won't try to change your beliefs.

 

I guess if that's the way you see it, that's the way you see it. *shrug*

 

And I'm not being negative about anything. I'm just not drinking the kool-aid. Have another glass. And while you're at it, try turning off your tv and got online and read some real news, from independent reporters, like my friend that had 5 years of news footage stolen from him by the Vietcong before he left Vietnam. He used to work for CBS, but quit and went independent after he learned about the republican quest to dumb down America.

 

I watch 2 hours of TV a week at the very outside. You can't make someone a liberal, just like you can't convert someone to conservative or liberalism. Or realism for that matter.

 

All reporters put their spin on everything. Every. Single. One. Which means to get the real info either I'd have to go there (which I'm too poor to do) or read so many different articles from so many different reporters I'd probably want to kill myself. I read a few and make my own conclusions.

 

I learned a lot from him, and other reportes just like him, who try to preserve integrity in reporting, not the . repugs try to dumb us down with. What's Bushes major advice to the American people? Go shopping! His cure-all to stimulate the economy? We all get these stimulus tax checks now so we can go to walmart and other corporations end up with the money. WAKE UP AMERICA!!!! We are being lied to and ripped off!

 

True that. I still don't get the point, but while I disagree with it (because it's idiotic, and whoever else agreed with him/recommended it to him should be kneecapped) I still need the money.

 

Try reading some news from millitary corruption .com. Oh, there is no corruption in the military? Sorry. Wrong again. Guess I'm not right about much these days. But if you and ex roadie are right, I'd rather be wrong.

 

Um...no. I'm gonna hazard a guess that they pick pretty much everything wrong with the military and discuss it? Kinda makes them have an agenda too.

 

Is that in response to the massive coverup that would be required if 9/11 had been known about, by the way?

 

And Dumbo WAS planning on attacking iraq before he even took office. This has been a republican plan for quite a while, and like i said, I learned quite a bit while i was fighting to save Pacifica Radio. That's where i learned from multiple independent news sources about the rise of the military-industrial-corporate-prison complex's rise to power.

 

That's quite the hyphenated thing you have there.

 

Dan, respectfully, I bet you never even heard of cointelpro. Can you tell me what it stands for?

 

Nope. A quick Google search is pretty fruitless as well.

 

Counter Intelligence Operation?

 

If so, please clarify what you mean by it.

 

Oh, here's one for the road...(no pun intended)

 

Telling Bush the Truth Is Costly;

Published on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 by the Seattle Post-Intelligencer

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/24/7876/

 

Pretty sure any commander in the history of wars (thousands of years, mind you) that has disagreed with his commander in chief/king/tribe leader/whatever is pushed to quit or does so under their own power.

 

So yeah, I'm glad to see that there are people in the military that have their own opinions and discuss them. However, at that position your job is to take orders. If you can't perform those orders up to the best of your ability (or have reason to believe that you can't) then you're gone.

 

 

Edit:

 

Did I say Harvard earlier? I coulda sworn he went there for a bit...maybe that was between semesters at Yale cuz he's so studly and stuff...:angel:

 

....Al-Quesodillas sound pretty darn delicious.

 

Edit 2:

 

This country turned from a surplus while Clinton was president (not that he was jesus the savoir come to save us' date=' for sure he was just another douchebag liar president) to being the worst deficit in the history of this nation.[/quote']

 

Oh good god what a terrible, terrible argument. Are you from the land of sugar fairies and gumdrops? Because that's the only place wars are free. That alone takes up the difference, which means technically it could be argued we broke even. Even WITH the other . we've done (i.e. tax rebates especially). Good lord.

 

And did you really say Republicans are in the minority? Hardly, they just don't speak out as much as liberals. Why? Because they're generally of the quiet, "I'm watching you then I'll talk to you if you're cool" variety of douche. Not like the liberal douche, which typically loves the sound of his own voice over that of anything else. This is opposed to that other 20% of douches out there (you know, the anti-douche douches) that watch all of this and just throw up in their mouths whenever the argument is started. That's cool though, we've learned to swallow it again and just deal with it. Can't be happy unless you try. Not that trying ever did anything.

 

 

 

What's interesting about your style of argument is that you seem to apply things as arguments that haven't even been said by the subject you're attacking. This in particular is the one that bugs me:

 

YOU DON'T SUPPORT THE WAR IT MEANS YOU DON'T SUPPORT THE TROOPS AND YOU MIGHT BE A TERRORIST!

 

I can safely say that 99% of conservatives/republicans don't think this way. I very much doubt Roadie does either. Hell' date=' the people that [i']say[/i] it probably don't even mean it.

 

While they might argue that you're an idiot for not supporting the war, or an butthole for not supporting "the troops", nobody is going to be so stupid as to label others as terrorists for it.

 

Why?

 

Because every single one of us knows people that think differently. Every one of us has friends that have vastly different opinions on this, and many other, subjects. As wrong as I think you are, I'd definitely consider you and idiot before considering you a terrorist, and hell i don't even think that!

 

Dummy. :angel:

[Kingfisher]

We haven't been attacked since 9/11 because it was a complete success, it did what it was supposed to, unite America behind a common enemy, "FEAR" with fear you can make people believe anything you want.

 

Al Quesadilla had damn all to do with it, the proof is right there and im not talking about conspiracy theories im talking about the actual 9/11 commission, You could drive a xxxxing bus through the gaps in it. Planes disintegrating on impact, Something that has never happened EVER yet every camera that would have shown and proved it did was confiscated and probably destroyed. No Steel Building in history has fallen due to fire EVER, the Empire State building got hit by a god damned B52 Bomber burned for 12 hours and is still standing 30+ years later. 2 buildings get hit by planes burn for less than an hour and both fall down and a third just falls down with a few choice floors on fire all on the same day, The terrorists that were supposed to be on the planes, 5 of them woke up the next day in their own beds bought the newspaper and learned they had just flown a plane into a building across the planet and their passports that were on the planes landed on the ground when not one readable piece of paper survived the collapses. Im sorry guys but for those of you who don't think something is wrong with that, your 100% De De Dee.

 

The people controlling Bush and probably many presidents before him and after him, need the Oil, the Natural Gas and the Opium for their stranglehold of power to continue. They will do anything and everything to keep it. These "controllers" have no sense of patriotism or loyalty to any nation or any country, We don't matter to them. We don't owe them damn all but our utter contempt.

 

Another Documentary from another point of view, Dispute it at your leisure.

 

"Who killed John O'Neil"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3857917663523144457

 

Sorry Rosie, but a B52 is alot smaller than a commercial jet with full fuel tanks. Are you an architect?

 

Keep posting this liberal bs, it's quite amusing.

[Branjo]

Spoken like a true Texan

[red930]

Spoken like a true Texan

 

Did I see a Mencia bit in your last post...?

 

:eek:

[Kingfisher]

Spoken like a true Texan

 

Born and raised in Chicago, my friend.

[jaz]

Dan...Dan...do you really need to resort to name calling? I thought you were above that, and i was being respectful of you and enjoying our debate, because over the few years I've been a member of this forum, I've grown to like you from what i read in your posts, you seem like a good guy, and i bet you are. but don't call me a dummy.

 

If you can't have a respectful debate w/o resorting to name calling, the debate is over. I don't argue with people that close their minds and only see what they want to see and shut out everything else. I have an open mind, but i lost my naivity a long time ago.

 

Maybe there is something to said for the largest non-profit, uncencored, non-corporate funded, uncencored Pacifica radio stations and so many reporters going independent.

You just keep your eyes closed and pretend the world doesn't have such nasties as I've mentioned, and enjoy your plastic bubble world. I olny say this because you called me a dummy. That's the response of someone who has run out of reason, or facts, or chooses to keep his mind closed to the ugly truth. This country was built on lies and would crumble to the ground if it got honest overnight.

 

I exit this conversation because of the lack of respect that you have demonstrated. Thought that namecalling was against the rules?

By the way, 70% of america disagrees with you and ex roadie, now kingfisher who has labeled liberals as BS. They are the only ones trying to restore sanity and end the warmongering and fear tactics the repugs and military indistrial complex you guys seem to ignore.

Branjo..."Spoken like a true Texan". lol.

 

Everybody has a right to their own opinion. It's just that some have more constructive, peaceful opinions than others. You support the war? Go enlist and prove it! I would say put up or shut up, but i have no right to tell anyone to shut up, or call people names simply because i don't agree with them.

 

I welcome reasonable debates. but when people put in the blinders and drink the gop koolaid, it's time for me to stop banging my head against the wall. You were right Travis.

There's just no reasoning with the "believers". I give up. I have gone into great detail, revealing my past experiences with independent reporting, which some people call liberal BS. To that i say ignorance is bliss. Go argue with these distiguished scholars, not me.

 

You are telling me these guys that spent small fortunes on their educations and years of researching and have won pulitzer prizes, noble peace prizes, are wrong when you haven't even been alive when they were doing it?? unf****believable.

peace and out.

jaz

[red930]

Apologies Jaz, but I believe I directed that comment at Travis, and only in jest. It was not meant for you in any way, and if in the midst of my reply I resorted to name-calling I do apologize as it is uncharacteristic and certainly shows little taste in this discussion/argument/fruitless, pointless debate.

 

Nobody ever moves on these simply because they are based on own personal beliefs and viewpoints. Facts are nearly non-existent, and those that are can be skewed towards either viewpoint.

 

In other words, there is no reasoning with the "believers" on either side. Just doesn't happen, won't happen. Which is why Roadie accepts the crap that Travis gives him and vice-versa. I guess realizing that is fundamental to the argument, though I'm not certain why some people actively pursue said argument at all...hell I don't even know why I participate every now and then.

 

I don't argue with people that close their minds and only see what they want to see and shut out everything else. I have an open mind, but i lost my naivity a long time ago.

 

Um...really? Because then you can't debate this with anyone. Keep in mind your own views were set in stone before posting, and you know that they wouldn't have changed no matter what I or anyone else says. Your mind was no more open than my own.

 

Naivety? Perhaps, we shall see.

 

You are telling me these guys that spent small fortunes on their educations and years of researching and have won pulitzer prizes, noble peace prizes, are wrong when you haven't even been alive when they were doing it?? unf****believable.

 

Many are just as corrupt as Bush and everyone in Congress. Why should I believe them over other people? Those awards are as meaningless as the Oscars or Emmys.

 

Everybody has a right to their own opinion. It's just that some have more constructive, peaceful opinions than others.

 

Everyone does have that right, and you're welcome to support peace. it's a great ideal, except that I personally believe that it'll never happen in any reasonable time frame. Whether or not your opinion is more constructive than mine is pretty much the point of the debate in the first place.

 

You support the war? Go enlist and prove it!

 

I leave for the Air Force this summer.

[Kingfisher]

Dan...Dan...do you really need to resort to name calling? I thought you were above that, and i was being respectful of you and enjoying our debate, because over the few years I've been a member of this forum, I've grown to like you from what i read in your posts, you seem like a good guy, and i bet you are. but don't call me a dummy.

 

If you can't have a respectful debate w/o resorting to name calling, the debate is over. I don't argue with people that close their minds and only see what they want to see and shut out everything else. I have an open mind, but i lost my naivity a long time ago.

 

Maybe there is something to said for the largest non-profit, uncencored, non-corporate funded, uncencored Pacifica radio stations and so many reporters going independent.

You just keep your eyes closed and pretend the world doesn't have such nasties as I've mentioned, and enjoy your plastic bubble world. I olny say this because you called me a dummy. That's the response of someone who has run out of reason, or facts, or chooses to keep his mind closed to the ugly truth. This country was built on lies and would crumble to the ground if it got honest overnight.

 

I exit this conversation because of the lack of respect that you have demonstrated. Thought that namecalling was against the rules?

By the way, 70% of america disagrees with you and ex roadie, now kingfisher who has labeled liberals as BS. They are the only ones trying to restore sanity and end the warmongering and fear tactics the repugs and military indistrial complex you guys seem to ignore.

Branjo..."Spoken like a true Texan". lol.

 

Everybody has a right to their own opinion. It's just that some have more constructive, peaceful opinions than others. You support the war? Go enlist and prove it! I would say put up or shut up, but i have no right to tell anyone to shut up, or call people names simply because i don't agree with them.

 

I welcome reasonable debates. but when people put in the blinders and drink the gop koolaid, it's time for me to stop banging my head against the wall. You were right Travis.

There's just no reasoning with the "believers". I give up. I have gone into great detail, revealing my past experiences with independent reporting, which some people call liberal BS. To that i say ignorance is bliss. Go argue with these distiguished scholars, not me.

 

You are telling me these guys that spent small fortunes on their educations and years of researching and have won pulitzer prizes, noble peace prizes, are wrong when you haven't even been alive when they were doing it?? unf****believable.

peace and out.

jaz

 

Jaz, chill out man. Don't take things so serious.

[Guest LookBackX2]

Dan, Roadie, King

 

Much respect and admiration for your open mindedness. Although you recognize the fact that things aren't perfect in the top tiers of our political system, you still have the forethought to keep a realistic viewpoint against all the spin that comes your way.

 

Jaz, how much energy can one person expend collecting useless and meaningless attacks on a single person's character and industry?

 

Have you ever considered that the Oil Industries names and faces were appointed by Bush simply because he knew their capabilities from working with them? Not everything that looks or seems too convenient or displays possible correlation to what could be viewed as hidden agenda is.

 

The problem here is that there is too much information available to whoever wants to have something to classy lady about.

 

I don't think you have reached your goal of attaining peace-of-mind through decresed activist activity:)

 

I do however find it funny that you will present the challenge for someone to stand up and fight if they support the war, while you have admittedly backed down from the "war" you believe in because of "e-mails" ooh E-MAILS. Run an hide the e-mails are coming.

 

Anyway, I really just wanted to commend the three guys I first mentioned.

Jaz just remember critisism is easy to get behind and hide if you are too scared to attack the problem yourself.