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Dougman

Military Agreement

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Unbelieveable. That's all i got to say. Except, well put Doc. I agree 100%.

I had typed a long, polite, well thought out response for roadie, but i got timed out and lost it. Just as well, he wouldn't have "heard" me anyway.

Looks like you were right, Travis. I'm not even going to bother retaliating.

 

I've made my stance clear and have no dillusions about it.

I've learned a thing or 2 about myself during this short, but intense debate. Positive and negative. I will work on eliminating the negative and accentuating the positive. I hope i have done the same for others. :)

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The Republican power must be really cut for at least four terms of presidential office. That would please me more than anything.

 

Do you really think that'd change anything?

 

I mean, yeah, we could get lucky and absolutely no crises would happen in next 16 years which would make anybody look pretty good. But what are the chances any president (much less congress) will actually do something that will improve the state of the country? And I don't mean something they have virtually no control over like "fixing" the economy, which will only happen once people (much like myself) dig ourselves out of the debts we have.

 

I mean actual, conscious decisions to make this country better. Hell, I don't even know what they'd be. Universal healthcare certainly wouldn't do it, that won't work until the country itse;f is out of debt. Obviously reallocating resources from the Pentagon would be up there, schools could clearly use it. Hell, reallocating the resources the Pentagon actually gets would probably be a good move, put the money in defense where it makes sense, in stuff we actually will use, then use the leftovers for research and whatnot.

 

Ban lobbying, and lay the xxxxing hammer down on those in Congress that accept money from lobbyists (and the lobbyists/companies themselves). Take away virtually all benefits from members of Congress now, you don't deserve to get paid after you leave you pricks. Once you show you are deserving of such a thing then we'll see. Reducing corruption in Senate and House will have an overall impact, many of the guys there started off as decent people.

 

I'm not sure how it'd work, but don't let people become 'lifelong politicians'. We need more everyday sort of people in Congress. People from all kinds of jobs with all sorts of backgrounds and opinions. I have absolutely no idea how this could be made fair, probably because it could never be.

 

Instead of pussyfooting around the gasoline/oil issue, lay a mandate that every commercial car sold in the US gets 60+mpg on the highway by 2020. A decade is more than enough time to achieve that when companies are forced into the corner.

 

Personally, I have no problem with the 'amero' idea. No, it doesn't have to happen now - but it'll happen someday anyways if this planet is EVER going to survive. You want peace? You gotta start close to home.

 

Alternatively, put up a damn fence and be done with it. One way or the other. Make any illegal already in the States a citizen as there's no way to find them all anyways, and quite frankly we need them too.

 

Work with Cuba, open up imports/exports. You don't have to like the pseudo-communism going on there but you can do what you can to make it a better place anyways. ., we could use their mechanics here - those dudes are studs.

 

None of that will happen though, regardless of what "party" is elected. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans have a person with the kind of balls (not to mention support) needed to pull this stuff off. Getting rid of the national debt will likely never happen either.

 

What change do you want to see? Besides "pulling out of Iraq" and staying out of countries that aren't our own. What domestic changes do you want to see? What foreign policies would you like chaged? What exactly changed in the last 8 years (if not more) that you are incredibly opposed to.

 

Keep in mind - ignore the war for the time being. Besides that (which I understand a lot of people aren't happy with) tell me you think. That goes to everyone, by the way. Whatever side you happen to stand on, even if you're just on the sidelines watching the fight.

 

I'm curious. :)

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you mean democrates and rep.? that side?

 

Sure, or sides on any given debate. For/against the war, universal healthcare, environmental issues, anything really. :)

 

I'd actually just like to compile a list of things that people want to see in this country, I'm curious because we all have different backgrounds and want to see different things or have differing perspectives on issues that we might not even consider an issue, per se.

 

:angel:

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Dan...

 

I agree with most of what you say but the Gas part....I dont think laying down the law to make cars get 60+ MPG will fix the gas prices....

 

Sure we will use less BUT, all that will do is play more with the supply and demand and drive the prices up more...they are going to make any amount of money they can that the government lets them get away with...

 

Second of all....the more research and development to get cars to get 60+mpg is past on to the paying customers that buy the cars...so you not only end up with 1 problem but now you have 2....High price of gas and more costly vehicles...

 

it's easier to fix the cost of gas and keep other cost down also...not like its ever going to happen but it's definitely the way to go....

 

It's just like around here...we all got on the bandwagon to use those Twist bulbs to make for a Greener earth (Big Bunch a-. that is) but now that we use less electric to run our house hold the Electric company is complaining they arent making any money do to less suply to each household....

 

really not my problem I use less but is is a pain in the butt when they try to justify a cost increase to get addidtion money per watt hour used...so the people in the stone age using incandescent bulb now pay alot more for electric because of a greener idea...see what BS that turns into....

 

When you follow your idea of mandating the 60+mpg this same thing will follow for gas and auto makers...

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@Doc and Dan, the way you are talking it's as if cars can't do 60mpg. They can do that sort of mpg now. If i drive with care, my Golf TDI can do 64mpg. This is now, not some time 20 years down the line. The reason the US government won't legislate for this is that ALL the cars that can do very high mpg's are either European or Japaneese. The American car industry, to be honest, is still stuck in the 1960's and has NO future without government protection. Which of course it is doing, which in turn means you will still be buying rubbish American gas guzzlers, feeding the corporations and oil company's. If the American public bought cars with there heads, instead of there hearts, you would very quickly have a country full of 60mpg+ cars.

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@Doc and Dan, the way you are talking it's as if cars can't do 60mpg. They can do that sort of mpg now. If i drive with care, my Golf TDI can do 64mpg. This is now, not some time 20 years down the line. The reason the US government won't legislate for this is that ALL the cars that can do very high mpg's are either European or Japaneese. The American car industry, to be honest, is still stuck in the 1960's and has NO future without government protection. Which of course it is doing, which in turn means you will still be buying rubbish American gas guzzlers, feeding the corporations and oil company's. If the American public bought cars with there heads, instead of there hearts, you would very quickly have a country full of 60mpg+ cars.

 

Exactly, even bigger cars can do it with a little help. See, I'm not concerned about American companies. If a mandate is made they'll play catch-up awfully quick. Since they see no reason to why would they bother now? Higher-efficiency cars from each of them are available overseas already because of higher gas costs there.

 

It'll take time for alternative fuel cars to come into play, but we can certainly change the way people drive now. Yeah, it'll suck. But some things just aren't needed.

 

And kitfit - the vast, vast majority of cars from Japan and Europe get almost identical gas mileage to equivalent Fords, GM's, etc, etc. Yes, they offer smaller models that generally aren't purchased here (I can hardly blame them considering the bigger vehicles on the road). But what I was implying with the 60+ mandate is that every passenger - regardless of size - get high gas mileage. Not just the ultra compacts that only two can ride in comfortably, I mean a car that can seat 4-5 and have room for their luggage as well.

 

@bowtie

 

I'm not concerned about gas prices. They'll go up anyways, I'm not really that worried about it. If people can't afford gas for a car that gets 40+ MPG, they should get a moped or start riding a bicycle. Yes, there are a handful of people that absolutely require lots of gas for their jobs. Never said change wasn't going to hurt some people...but if they can't afford it then there is probably a local job that pays just as well.

 

Just my two cents, I didn't really go into details earlier. :angel:

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Fully agree with you Dan. By the way, it's not just the compacts that get high mpg's. The Golf TDI i refered to seats 5 and has a boot. It's not a small engine either, 1.9 diesel. The newer generation of diesels coming on stream now, do even higher mpg's than my current one.

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I can take the heat and insults hurled my way simply because I believe in the all conquering spirit of the human soul. Throughout this thread all I see are angry people that don't understand!

 

@Jaz

 

Come on man, put you your dukes and fire away with your notions of how the world really works. You should find lots of ammunition available from the drive-by-media.

 

But let me warn you. I've been around the world three times and have read many more books and magazines than anyone I know. I spend several hours a day keeping up with current events while reading current perspectives on historical happenings. As many on this forum will attest too, I'm a formidable adversary and champion of human beings first and foremost. I love my country and have great respect for the founding fathers that established our representative democracy. I hate communist and socialist because they sap the will to succeed and individuality from people.

 

Being treated as a lowest common denominator is no way to live.

 

Addendum:

 

@Oceanborn

 

You find me one human being that WANTS to live under communist rule and you will have found a loser that wants to depend upon others for his welfare.

 

@Branjo

 

So the terrorist thugs that want to establish a Muslim "heaven on earth" are the good guys? Who are you kidding? They are willing to convince weak minded followers to blow themselves up killing innocent victims to promote a Muslim society across the face of the planet. Freedom Fighter my butt. Terrorist!

 

Guys, the United States and a few select other countries are willing to take the heat and promote freedom and democracy so we have to take our political hits from time to time.

 

I tell you what! All you Hate America people go live in a communist or socialist country for a few years then come back and tell me how you feel.

 

Tell my buddy that his Chinese wife is just a whiner and complainer and should go back to China since it's such a wonderful place.

 

Tell my friend that he should go back to Venezuela with his family to work in the fields with no chance to make something better in his lifetime.

 

Tell my customer that she should return to Iran so she can live under Sharia Law and be treated as property as their hadith tradition requires.

 

Tell my friend that leaving Cuba 40 years ago was a bad idea and he should never have started his multi-million dollar company in America.

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About the gas mileage "problem" we have here in America...

I will start worrying about it when gas prices are 8$ a quart like they are in most other countries.

 

Dan, the biggest way to change America for the better is to downsize the government.

Government is not here to hold our hands and make life easier, I was always taught you make your own life, live it in a free country and the sky is the limit.

Getting rid of lobbyists would be a good start.

 

If I were President, I would have done everything in my power to not let those poor victims and families that suffered during 9/11 happen ever again. If that meant being pro-active and taking out a few looneys in other countries, so be it.

 

It's hard to listen to all the anti-war stuff, if anything else, it's a slap in the face to the innocent people that died already. I am sure alot of you would feel different if you had a family member or friend die in that attack.

Sure, two wrongs don't make a right, but I wouldn't call eliminating terrorists a "wrong" thing to do.

 

I am trying to think of a situation where we have been attacked since 9/11.

 

All I can come up with is how we have shootings and killing done by our own people.

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About the gas mileage "problem" we have here in America...

I will start worrying about it when gas prices are 8$ a quart like they are in most other countries.

 

 

Where are gas prices this high...?

 

Only country higher than us is Europe....

 

Most all other countries are less than a dollar a gallon....if you read the news or watch TV they lead you to believe it's that high but you simply ask the people who live there thats not the case...

 

Many people from different countries are right here in our own forum can back that up as well as other forums across the net...just ask them when you meet them...

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@Oceanborn

 

You find me one human being that WANTS to live under communist rule and you will have found a loser that wants to depend upon others for his welfare.

 

I never said it was a good regime....I said....if it happens elsewhere in the world WHY do YOU care?

 

It's not the United States' problem...so let everybody else live their own way

I don't agree the way muslim societies dictate their freedoms or lack thereof,

But I don't go barging in their backyard telling them it's wrong, if they wanna live like that, so be it, it's not my problem and it shouldn't be anybody else's but their own

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