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Angry's rant + homework

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This is actually started from another thread (the NIU tragedy) that I decided wasn't appropriate for it. I started by answering something Sued had asked (as he's a Brit and probably has no earthly concept of our feelings towards our right to bear arms), and ended up going a bit further, but necessary.


America & Americans...you are...lazy and stupid for the most part.


Angry yet? Read on. Read it all. You can reply that I'm an idiot, that won't bother me. But a true American, an American who loves his country, it will make you think. Whether it makes you think I'm a jackass or a wise man or something smelly and in-between, the point is that it made you think. Something you people don't do enough of (and thinking about which porno to wank to, which mp3 to steal on bit torrent, which idiotic tv show to zone out to, which processed food to stuff down your gullet, none of those types of thinkings count).


Do some REAL thinking. Stuff that makes your brain hurt.


here goes...

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"That government is the strongest of which every man feels himself a part."


"The tyranny of a prince is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy."


I've never seen a clear cut argument on this, but I don't meet that many americans and those I do seem to want to avoid talking guns.


The two sides I've heard are that it is constitutional as you say, and that it is but only in defence of your country. I'm not wanting to start a flame/rage thread but I need to clarify these things as I'm shortly going to be seeing more americans than I can shake a stick at and I'm not really good at keeping my mouth shut, ergo this post.


the one thing Americans are extremely passionate about is their right to bear arms. While it is mostly about being able to repel the government should . fly south (ie the government ends up out of control), the amendment, like the rest of the first 10 (Bill of Rights) are very vague. This isn't an accident. Our Founding Fathers were wise beyond their century and knew that as time went on, there would be issues facing our citizens that couldn't possibly be foreseen when the Constitution was written.


Freedom of speech and from religion are broad yet vague, and thankfully so. The right to bear arms...since it IS our right, I see no reason why we shouldn't take advantage of it...as long as we are law-abiding citizens that have a healthy respect (almost downright fear) of firearms.


These days... it isn't like it was back then. Sure they had crime in the late 1700's but you know, 3 masked men didn't roll into Ye Olde Banke with sawed-off pump shotguns and Glock 19's with 30-round clips demanding all yer flecking silver notes and gold coins or I'll blow ye to yon smithereens, ye damn European! (a good insult back then haha...!) as they ran out to the street and got into their '93 Buick LeSabre that they ripped off from Ye Olde Courthouse parking lot while getting chased by a one-horsepower....horse being ridden by a constable...


I do believe that if law-abiding citizens all were armed, we'd see a lot less crime. Problem is, that's countered by human nature, and as we all know, human nature is dangerously unpredictable...which translates into shitbags thinking they can solve their problems with the gun.


Like all of our Constitutional Rights, they exist on the edge of a sharp sword. You can't restrict my speech, except when I want to yell FIRE!!! in crowded theater and then laugh as you dumbasses trample each other to death trying to escape in a panic.


You (the state) can't sponsor a religion lest we become a theocracy, yet at the same time, bull crap cults can become tax-free religions (SCIENTOLOGY...).


And that "All Men Are Created Equal" part you know, that was sorta tempered later on by saying that blacks are only actually 3/5 of a person...


Our Founding Fathers were by no means perfect. But they nearly perfected a form of government that the world looked to for a very long time until about 2001 when the government sorta just abandoned that Konsty-tooshin thingy and started passing plenty of ugly, civil-liberty stripping laws (cough HOMELAND SECURITY and the PATRIOT ACT).


(ps if you aren't sure about that Patriot Act thing, it basically states that all those konsty-tooshin thingies like no unlawful search-n-seizure and no arrest and holding without due process, etc, those things don't actually mean anything anymore because now the gubm't can just say "well we think you Travis are a terrorist" and then search my house without any probable cause, they can detain me indefinitely without counsel, they can torture me (or whatever they want to call it with flowery words, torture is still torture), etc.)


Anyone that doesn't believe such a thing, go read the Patriot Act. It's so vague that ANYONE can be considered a "terrorist" which means you have zero rights under the Constitution. Yay!




Only sheep and idiots blindly allow the media and the government to dictate the state of affairs to them.


REAL Americans question everything the government does. If we don't, we allow the government to run unchecked, unbalanced in their favor, and we end up where we are, without any real rights (without Supreme Court challenge after who knows how long of a legal battle?)


We've sat by idly watching dumbass . like Britney Spears and Nancy Grace and Lost and Infotainment (Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Air America, etc) and grown lazy and fat instead of lean and mean questioning machine who keeps the powers of the government in check since Congress obviously can't figure out how to do such a thing. President who can pass a bill and then write in the margin "well I don't really have to follow this law" and there's nothing Congress can do about it is APPALLING and FRIGHTENING. (for those of you who are idiots, it's called a Signing Statement and Bush has used it in excess of 1,000 times since he's been in office...go look it up and see if you aren't as xxxxing scared as I am).


War without end...against an enemy that is undefined. Daily the white house or fox news or others throw up the big OMG TERROR ALERT!!! and it frightens everyone into giving up a little more liberty and then when no terror actually happens the government says "but see, all those rights you gave up helped us stop the terrorists from attacking us because....THEY HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS!!!" which is the biggest bunch of bull crap I've heard since Nazi Germany declared nearly the same goddamn thing back in the 1930's, using the same scare tactics, passing almost identical laws taking power away from the people and making the government the be-all/end-all when it comes to decisions and citizen's rights.


I'm not a crazy conspiracy nutjob. You all know me better than that. If any of this is news to you, I suggest you go a-searchin' for some answers. Don't use bull crap mass media sources like FOX NEWS either, and for damn sure don't be morons and use Wikipedia. Go straight to the US Government's websites and read things like the Patriot Act. Read what a Signing Statement is. Read about what the North American Union and the "Amero" is (or most likely will become).


Don't be sheep. Don't sit there watching your tv and just accept what you are being told. Most of you can't even read at a high school level because a smart, well-informed, well-educated citizenry is a major threat to things that I've just mentioned. We shouldn't teach our kids how to read and write very well lest they become intelligent and then grasp how much of an butt-raping they are getting as each day passes by.


Research your candidates. Use your powers as citizens of the United States of America to make your voice heard and vote for the candidates that will keep this country free. Don't vote for some jackass because Bill O'Reilly (a CONFIRMED AND PROVEN LIAR) or Rush Limbaugh (a DRUG ADDICT, HATE-MONGERER, AND HYPOCRITE OF THE WORST KIND) tells you how to vote.


DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH. Find out what each candidate stands for. Vote for the one who will preserve this great nation. Don't BE SHEEP. SHEEP GET LED TO THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE...and they are too xxxxing stupid to even have a clue where they are being led to.


Watch as many 9/11 conspiracy videos, as many Federal Reserve/IRS conspiracy videos, as many alternative and conspiracy videos, papers, websites as you can. Then filter out through research and fact-finding (from reliable sources, not from mass-media) what is true and what is someone smoking too much dope making movies about lizard-people shapeshifters from the star system Sol Draconis who take over human hosts to further their own alien ambitions (hehe, trust me, David Icke is the one guy you MUST check out as he's crazier than a shithouse rat!).


Loose Change 2nd Edition



Those two will get you started. Are they true? Are they bull crap? Are they partially true and partially bull crap? Are you brave enough to wade through truth and bull crap to find out for yourself? Are you afraid of being called loony, crazy, whatever? Are you too much of a sheep to do it? Afraid ExRoadie will come in spouting "facts" from his neo-conservative sources who make it up as they go along to justify their point of view, aka "facts"? Afraid of Angry doing the exact opposite? (let's be clear though, one of us absolutely and completely believes that it's all fake and fiction that the US Government, in their ultimate "compassion", infected Native Americans with smallpox on the Trail of Tears as we marched them off to reservations, and one of us believes that there's a study done by the CDC that says men of color are the cause of spreading AIDS by having . with other men of color "on the down-low" and that's what that term/slang actually stands for....you decide if either is true by checking your FACTS, facts that don't come from a politically-slanted government pamphlet.


People, this is my challenge to you. This tragedy at Virginia Tech and the one yesterday at NIU, this is a direct result of what we, as citizens, have let our country become. No one takes responsibility, yet we all pass the burden of it to everyone else...our mothers, our teachers, our priests, whatever.


The responsibility is on YOU. If this is what you think our country should be, then do nothing. Kick back, drink a corporate drink (full of high fructose corn syrup...yeah, go research that a little...), watch your stupid reality shows like Who Wants to Spank a Millionaire Heiress Whore, listen to politically-slanted news like CNN, FOX, ABC, etc that tells you how to think, believe in commericals like Visa that claim if you use cash instead of THEIR debit cards that you will cause an entire shopping mall to grind to a halt because retarded children/adults that work the registers can't xxxxing count back change without the help of the calculator built into the register so they'd much rather just have you use your card as it does all the work for them, just keep on living the way you are living eating your hormone-injected, soon-to-be-cloned food laced with preservatives, pesticides, poisons, while driving your Pollution Utility Vehicles that only enslave us to not only the oil companies who rake in BILLIONS of dollars of profit EVERY QUARTER which of course are tied to unstable, hate-filled regions of the world (jews should be exterminated? they don't have a right to live??? who the xxxx decides that? palestinians should be kept behind walls? continually booted out into the desert because jews need more apartments??? who the xxxx decides that??).


Keep doing exactly what you are doing. You've helped make this country what it is today.





The rest of you, do what needs to be done. Seek the truth of what is going on around you. Make a difference. But don't just make a difference for yourself. Encourage others to seek the truth as well. Even if it is a different truth than what you or I or Muhammed or Moses or Jesus believes. Seeking the truth and trying to make a difference is good for your mind, good for your soul. Laying down and accepting what is happening is evil and only encourages others to do the same.


I'll leave you with a couple of things our Founding Fathers wisely said before their time on this earth was ended....



They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Franklin's Contributions to the Conference on February 17 (III) Fri, Feb 17, 1775


"The maxim of buying nothing without the money in our pockets to pay for it would make of our country one of the happiest on earth." --Thomas Jefferson to Alexander Donald, 1787. ME 6:192


"That we are overdone with banking institutions which have banished the precious metals and substituted a more fluctuating and unsafe medium, that these have withdrawn capital from useful improvements and employments to nourish idleness, that the wars of the world have swollen our commerce beyond the wholesome limits of exchanging our own productions for our own wants, and that, for the emolument of a small proportion of our society who prefer these demoralizing pursuits to labors useful to the whole, the peace of the whole is endangered and all our present difficulties produced, are evils more easily to be deplored than remedied." --Thomas Jefferson to Abbe Salimankis, 1810. ME 12:379


"[With the decline of society] begins, indeed, the bellum omnium in omnia [war of all against all], which some philosophers observing to be so general in this world, have mistaken it for the natural, instead of the abusive state of man. And the fore horse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816. ME 15:40


"A popular government without popular information or the means of acquiring it is but a prologue to Farce or Tragedy or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own Governors must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives."


"Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people, who have a right...and a desire to know."

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Loose Change 2nd Edition - Absolutely amazing documentary that I've watched many times with many friends and family.


I am a dyed in the wool conservative Christian (however vote independently for whomever I think is the best candidate that supports and promotes my core beliefs and values). But I'll tell you, every time I watch that video it sends shivers clear to my knees.


Angry, this is probably one of the most cohesive, profound and pertinent rants you have ever authored.

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Let's say these theories are correct, even though it's based on circumstantial evidence, I still think the death toll of these actions are well below that of Brzezinski's strategy against the Soviet Union on the ground of Afghanistan. I'm not thinking about the undeniable connection between Bin Laden and the whole network of CIA trained Islamic extremists, but about the whole infrastructure of narcotrafficking that "cleverly" was set in action to finance the US operations and arming of these extremists; by the advice of French secret service by the way, based on its experience in Korea. The narcotrafficking has possibly killed a lot more American lives than everything of 9/11 put together.


One evil act doesn't make another better, so it was only my personal reflection after watching this video.

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Angry,, let me tell you something. Ive been having your feelings and turmoils since I was fifteen and Richard M Nixon was president. Believe me it was worse then to go against the "GENERAL" view of things. We in High School were brainwashed the republican way which wasnt so bad accept for the fact that it pissed me off that these adults could get away with it as if we were all stupid. I hated Nixon and I Hated Reagan for his cutting of school budgets promptly after he entered the office of Governator. I lived with Nancy and Ronnie long before they became National figures.

As you say,, the worst of it has been this past 8 or so years and you should have heard me screaming on the internet back in 2000 when the elections were over. If I had now said some of of things I said back then I might be in "Hot Water" with some govt agency or other now. Now I cant even really just say what I want on the Internet without "BigBro" wanting to peep in at me.


Ive had enough at 53 to just want to give up now and let all you younger people fight for your country as Im tired. I feel sorry for you all,,, I really do.

And to the Englanders here, I actually feel really really sorry for you as you guys are totally ripped for freedoms and its getting worse on your side of the ocean everyday.

Thanks for picking up the torch Angry and dont give-in to any GoldChain wearing Heavies, who ever they may be in the world. Keep Punching.


By the Way,, I love the feel of my .45 under my pillow at night. Best sleeping pill ever invented. I "pity the fool" breaks into my house. Happiness IS a warm gun.

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Well since im from weedland aka holland i think i can only say something usefull about holland.

I will explain why...

Everything angry wrote or has written has atleast some truth in it, that much i know about him.

In this case the: use your own brain is so very true.


So why then cant i comment on the whole guns issue you are having overthere?



My oppinion would be colord by the way i grew up (not in the states).

The tolerant lifestyle i believe in, although i must admit, thats pretty much going out off the window lately. But that is a whole different show:)


And most inportantly the fact that i will not<---keyword here; i will not sleep with or have a gun in my house as long as i am alive!


*you may now all go: yea yea what do you know...*


Done? fine since i actually hold an permit to shoot guns i think i know something about them.

Let me get back to the tolerant lifestyle we used to have here.

The only way to decribe that feeling, cause that is what i mean by that is this way.


"the one thing Americans are extremely passionate about is their right to bear arms" written by angry himself, see above.

If you are able to grasp that, you need to translate that into a laidback feeling with an "be normal and dont bother me with your [whatever] then we be k"


Almost getting what im talking about?, then you really need to do as angry said but start by exploring the brain you have first.


Another example:


Man beats up wife.


Thats a simple one right?

So how would i react on that one? me beweing a woman.


Just as simple.

If a man needs to beat up a woman, and there is never an excuse for that one..ever!

then he crosses a line, think you all can relate to that.

The moment he does cross that line i have won already, mindwise.

So he might be able to wack my face but my mind/soul/beeing has the victory.


Back to the own oppinion and the guns issue then.

Do i have an oppinion?

Yes i do.

Is it my own, i think so yes.


Well lets hear it then...


The best way to get an oppinion for your self is the written one.

I have been around from libary's to wikipedia, wich didnt make it better imo.

I'm saying this since the history is the best way to predict the future, so learing about that is an must.

And again let me state this one for you nutheads:

I will only comment on my own backyard before i yell about you american's


Because we dutchies werent all that when it commes to guantanamo bay.


Didnt know that?

Well KLM was so nice to offer the planes going there a stopping place for refresments or whatever.

Mind you KLM was still KLM and not france air or something.


Heard about Pim Fortuyn?

The almost president who came along and started bitching about to much foreing peeps, who demand to much of their culture things that our own culture is going away, as in no more place for that.

He really would have been president if he wasnt shot by a nitwith who didnt agree.

Now we have harry potter....


You all must have heard about ayaan hirsi ali in the states.

She is pissed of by radicale islam.

Wich btw i am too, that is anything radical, keep it dont want anything to do with that.

So why did she leave holland then, thats like ehh weird comming from you isnt it?

Yes and no.

I dont know how it works in the states if you wanna become a citizen, but overhere we kinda want your thrutfull name.

For starters.


After a couple of years when she was in the goverment, now there is a hudge xxxx-up, they found her brother.

They? who is they.

Grab you seat: the news peeps did.

Apperantly she was lying about her name and place of birth and such thing, wich makes the citizenship illigal, wich made her an illigal inmigrant.


Goodlord talking about xxxxups... we know how to, trust me.


So adding it all up..


My oppion would be look into your own backyard then yell about other countries.



The moment i need to sleep with a gun under my pillow, like i know how to use that when im waking up..not..coffee!, anywho, i then consider myself so paraniod and xxxxed up that you for that matter may bring me in a white coat to the nuthouse...given right or not.


But then again, thats just me.

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"Who Killed John O'Neil" is a very eye opening documentary, a must see IMPO.


Anyway Branjos little rant:


I don't think loving your country and being a patriot are the same things or even relevant today. They are just excuses, first and foremost our loyalty should lie with the human race not a bunch of politicians who's job is nothing more than to stay employed, and they will tell us anything they need too in order keep their jobs. They tell us who to hate and we do it, they tell us to feel proud that 100,000 people are dead in the name of freedom and we swallow it. Then we find out its BS and then they tell us who the real enemy is and we swallow that again, every single time.

Its like pretending to throw a ball for a dog and watch it look for it when you still have it in your hand. We must look like complete dumb crap to those with real power. And if you organize and hold meetings and try and make the public aware and get off your butt and do something, your committing the worst crime of all "Anti American/British...etc behavior" and to them thats no different than inhouse terrorism and enemy propaganda. Funny how a freedom fighter and a terrorist are about ten years apart, just when they have outlived their usefulness they are classed as our enemies.


Can you really blame a 15 year old kid of whatever religion from whatever country that has had his whole family blown up or tortured and killed, for wanting to kill those who did it?. And we say " Oh why do they hate us so?" "Oh why can't they just leave us alone?" cause our tax dollars are used to F**k up their countries and we see our lives as more important than theirs. Who the F**k are we to say an American or British life is worth more than an Afghan or an Iraqi's ?? Its a . state of affairs and the whole mess is due to ignorance on both sides, no sight of compromise because "we don't negotiate with terrorists", f**k that, when someone is willing to strap a bomb to their body and kill as many people as they can, give them a voice and let them use it, try anything. Buddhist monks burned themselves in protest to the Vietnam war and did anyone give a .? no. As long as we can look the other way we will, and the more we do that the more determined they will become and the worse things will get.


In the second world war there was a real threat to freedom and Hitler was an evil bastard, so being part of an army against it was a just cause and a fight you could be proud to fight. Today joining the army is signing the dotted line to be used as government muscle, you may have the best intentions to protect your country but after you sign your name your opinion doesn't count for .. No offense to the people in this forum who are part of the armed forces, I believe I value your life more than your country does and I don't want you to give it up for anything less than absolute certainty


I don't want anyone to die or kill for their beliefs or even die or kill for the right to have them. The righteous will fight to be heard, the liar will fight to silence his enemy permanently.


As for gun laws,

The right to bare arms was once appropriate but now its not, Way too many people think they are fun and ok to have, and they teach their kids how to shoot before they can read a book. There was just a school shooting in a University near me and one of my friends missed it by about half an hour. The school is trying to set up some sort of way to try and stop this but im afraid unless you take the guns out of public hands there is no way to stop it. Your no safer cause you have a gun in your house or you can hit a can of soda from 1000 yards and if you think you are then your an idiot. To people in this country guns are like toys and thats a fact, gun clubs hold competitions for the whole family I mean WTF!!!. When an assailant has a gun and you do not, your getting robbed of your possessions or assaulted (terrible thing indeed) but when both have guns someone is going to die and I would hazard a guess that more times than not the criminal is the one left standing.


Most crimes committed with guns were legally bought at one time and/or stolen, numbers filed off and then sold on. Remove the ability of buying them and they become rare, expensive and the common criminal can't afford them. Its not an immediate solution but it sure as . is a step in the right direction. How can our authorities concentrate on stopping smugglers bringing guns into the country when they can be bought in shops in our own cities.


This is just how I feel when given the chance to express it, I am prepared to be wrong and to learn but quoting history and facts given to us by the very people we distrust is no solution for the future, we need to have an opinion on how we feel personally not whats fashionable and will bring us the biggest pat on the back. Thanks A_G. Its been a while from a very important debate has had a chance surface, I hope it stays open.

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I don't sleep with my guns but I do have at least one weapon on every floor of my house. It's not necessarily loaded but the ammunition is near enough that I can have it loaded as soon as I lay my hands on the weapon. They are all where the grandchildren cannot accidentally get to them and if they do manage to get at one, most would do them no harm anyway, due to the way they are stored.


Notice I said weapons, not guns and most, not all. I have guns of course, but I also have knives and even a cross-bow pistol which is a lot of fun to practice with. It is a little harder to aim than a normal "gun". Once I blew out a pane in a window when the bolt went a little high. Then again, it isn't supposed to be a quick-draw, long distance weapon. :O


I will have to look up the statistics again sometime that show the relative crime levels of states that try to ban guns and those that allow their citizens to carry concealed weapons. Can you imagine going into a bank in Texas or Florida that is full of depositors, all of whom may be carrying, and announcing you are going to rob it? :eek:


Yes, I believe in the right to keep and bear arms but, as I also believe in common sense as well as humor. Some years ago I got an NRA sticker from my father, who was a life time member, and used a razor blade to modify it a bit before putting it on my bumper. When finished, it read, "I support the right to keep and arm bears." :P

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