Jump to content

Best HDTVs for the Buck


politbureau

Recommended Posts

Guest Blooz1

I definitely think this thread is VERY "stickieworthy"!

 

Some great info here from one who's seen these sets "in action"!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 31
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

i just bought a new 47' lcd...now whats the best way to calibrate it?
What brand and model did you get? I may have user menu settings I can provide you as a baseline.

 

The best way would be to pick up a few test CDs - Avia is quite good, as well as some HD content, and tweak from there. Also remember that what looks right to you may not be what the HDTV 'purists' consider the best, so take anything you read online with a grain of salt.

 

http://www.avsforum.com can be quite useful - they have dedicated threads for each model/series often with pictures and users individual settings. Just heed my above warning :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

politbureau,

 

What do you think of this Samsung DLP? I've been considering getting one of these eventually and I like that it has led's instead of bulbs but haven't seen one in action.

The 87s are quite good sets, and I've had the pleasure of calibrating maybe 2 or 3 in the last few months.

 

A quick synopsis: The LED DLP solution is quite a bit better than the traditional lamps used in other RPTVs. Contrast is better, rainbow effect is seriously diminished (though not completely eliminated, as some reviewers claim) and overall picture quality is quite reasonable.

 

The downside is that similar to all other DLPs, I consider there an excessive amount of picture "noise." This is often referred to as "mosquito noise," and refers to a general level of background movement that is visible from various viewing distances. This is a result of the mirror movement, and is part of the inherent design of DLPs in general. DLPs also suffer from a moderate amount of "screen door effect," or the visible 'grid' lines between pixels. This is lessened in the 87s series due to the omni-directionality of the LED design, but is still noticeable at close to moderate distances.

 

Lastly, DLPs suffer greatly when viewed from anywhere but the immediate sweet spot directly in line with the screen. This is becuase the light source - in this case the LED - is aimed directly at the screen, and viewing from either a moderate vertical or horizontal angle, off-axis, seriously reduces the image quality, colour perception and overall geometry.

 

It's for this last reason, more than the previous two, that I rarely reccomend DLPs to most consumers. The reality is that most TV viewing is not a solitary activity, so someone will always suffer from sitting off to the side.

 

Flat panels, now even LCDs, are far superior in this regard. Where previously DLPs were the only way to get 50"+ size screens for a reasonable price, 50" flat panels are now very reasonable, and I can name a dozen 720p panels in the 50" range that are the same price as that Samsung or less. They will outperform the DLP by a significant margin, as well as take up less floor space.

 

Yes that Samsung is 1080p, but I would say, at the risk up upsetting the HDTV fanboys, that you will perceive better image quality out of a 50" 720p plasma than the 1080p DLP.

 

Also I think this is "Sticky" worthy....
Thanks! :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What brand and model did you get? I may have user menu settings I can provide you as a baseline.

 

The best way would be to pick up a few test CDs - Avia is quite good, as well as some HD content, and tweak from there. Also remember that what looks right to you may not be what the HDTV 'purists' consider the best, so take anything you read online with a grain of salt.

 

http://www.avsforum.com can be quite useful - they have dedicated threads for each model/series often with pictures and users individual settings. Just heed my above warning :D

 

i got a Toshiba 47HL167 - 47" REGZA 1080p LCD HDTV. how does the whole calibrate by CD work?? do i need an upconverting dvd player?? the only HD content i get is from CBS in 1080i, cause i live in a small college town...i will check out the link...thanx for the info

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i got a Toshiba 47HL167 - 47" REGZA 1080p LCD HDTV. how does the whole calibrate by CD work?? do i need an upconverting dvd player?? the only HD content i get is from CBS in 1080i, cause i live in a small college town...i will check out the link...thanx for the info
Nice little set. I don't have any calibration settings on file (not certified on Toshiba), but check out the 'official' HL167 thread on AVS. Someone has posted settings in the top-most post:

 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread...24&page=2&pp=30

 

Let me know how it goes!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For anyone considering the Samsung HP-T5054 or HP-T5064, here are some settings to get you started (post break-in and good for all around viewing, daytime and low light).

 

[color=blue]
Picture Menu
Mode. . . . . . . Movie
Contrast. . . . . 75
Brightness. . . . 48
Sharpness. . . . 20
Color. . . . . . . .48
Tint. . . . . . . . .G55 / R45
Color Tone. . . . Warm2
Size. . . . . . . . .Just Size
Digital NR. . . . . Off


Detailed Settings Menu
Black Adjust. . . Off
Dynamic Contrast. . . Medium
Gamma. . . . . .  0
Color Space. . . Auto or Wide (I cant tell any difference with any of my input signals)
Edge Enhancement. . . Off

White Balance Menu
R-Offset. . . . . 13
G-Offset. . . . . 12
B-Offset. . . . . 14
R-Gain. . . . . . 15
G-Gain. . . . . . 15
B-Gain. . . . . . 13

My Color Control Menu
I've left all of these at default settings

Setup Menu
Game Mode. . . . . . Off
Energy Savings. . .  Off
HDMI Black Level. .  Low
[/color]

 

I'll give some guys over at AVS Forums as well as the official Samsung Forums credit for these settings. (I didn't come up with them all on my own and I've tweaked a few for my particular room lighting and viewing angle).

 

But these settings do look spectacular on my HP-T5054.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So much for the great info on HDTV.I was thinking sbout getting the Sammy 5281 until I read your post.I was going to wait till the price dropped to resonable levels,but you have changed my mine.Been looking at the Pioneer PD-5080HD as my choice.As you probaply know sales of plasma televisions has plummeted to about 30%,my question is if I should purchase this unit,will parts be avalible if something happens 2-5 years?Also one other question would you reccomend a Blue Ray or HDTV player?Again many thanks for saving me 3000 bucks:angel:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So much for the great info on HDTV.I was thinking sbout getting the Sammy 5281 until I read your post.I was going to wait till the price dropped to resonable levels,but you have changed my mine.Been looking at the Pioneer PD-5080HD as my choice.As you probaply know sales of plasma televisions has plummeted to about 30%,my question is if I should purchase this unit,will parts be avalible if something happens 2-5 years?Also one other question would you reccomend a Blue Ray or HDTV player?Again many thanks for saving me 3000 bucks:angel:
Well I'd hate to turn you off the LNT81 series entirely - it is a phenomenal set overall, but there are a lot of nitpicky issues which would hold me back from choosing it outright over a similarly priced plasma.

 

First of all, let me say that the blacks are BLACK. No other set, Plasma or otherwise that I have measured, can get as black as this one. This is because it uses numerous LEDs to selectively dim darker areas of the image to increase contrast - hence the stratospheric contrast ratio (which is dynamic btw, and not indicative of the panels true ability). This basically means the panel can pretty much turn the back lighting completely off in some areas to get a truly black image. This is only available, however, via an option called LED Smartlighting.

 

The problem with the smartlighting feature is that the set is electronically measuring IRE input from the source and dynamically adjusting the backlighting to match. This is a great idea in theory, but in practice, it leads to an effect I call "black pulse," which is a rapid dimming/lightening of certain areas which is distracting in a wide variety of program material. It's impossible to calibrate this effect out completely, and though it can be greatly reduced, in every case I needed to compromise on other settings to achieve this reduction.

 

The other issue with this set is a significant amount of Black 'crush' with most of the settings. When I said that the image of this set did not radically outperform the LNT65 series by any margin, I meant it - calibrated to ISF-ideal settings for greyscale, colour temperature and overall brightness and contrast, the sets images appeared similar, with the tell-tale greyishness of the backlight showing in the letterbox bar of 2.4:1 source material, for example. Calibrated to eliminate this for a truly black image, a lot of shadow detail is lost, and black crush is evident. This set also suffers from quite a bit of mura, or backlight clouding. This is to be expected, since there are now many, many more physical back lighting sources, but irritating and not befitting a set of this caliber (or cost!),

 

So there are both ups and downs to this set. If you can live with a slightly muted image, minor amounts of black crush and some mildly distracting black level pulsating, this set will give you the true blacks you've always dreamed of. Calibrated - in the strictest sense - to the best possible image, the technology is still not quite there.

 

The 5080HD is, of course, a brilliant set - while not a technological wunderkind like the Samsung, it eschews fancy features in favour of what plasmas do best - great colour and deep blacks. Pioneers are always bad with greens, and I could complain about the menus, but this is nitpicky compared to overall image quality and accuracy of this panel. Properly calibrated, you simply won't get a better image than the Pioneer.

 

It's still a plasma though, so it's more delicate than an equivalent LCD and requires some care in its first few hundred hours of use, but the colours leap off the screen, and black depth and detail is fantastic. There's a reason my reference panel is a Pioneer plasma - no other TV gets quite as close to the ideal image. Thats not to say there isn't room for improvement - Pioneer is playing it safe and making minor, incremental improvements to its already great (if overpriced) lineup, while Samsung is out there leading the technology wave with innovations that push the envelope. I think LCDs are the way of the future, so Pioneers lacklustre efforts in this regard are frustrating.

 

Personally, I would look at the Samsung 65 or 71 series - while the benefits of 120hz processing can be debated, the 71 is a slightly more 'tweaked' version of the 65, though you will have to play quite a bit to actually see a difference between the two. But the prices are really close right now, so it might be worth searching out a discounted 71. The Sony XBR4 is also quite good, with ever, ever so slightly better blacks, but I prefer the overall image, features, style and usability of the Samsungs in general. Do consider screen finish too, as the reflectivity of the Samsungs could be a deal-breaker if your room has a lot of ambient lighting or large windows.

 

LCDs have a very short ways to go before they are quite on par with the colour and black level detail of plasmas, but overall, I like their simplicity, ease of use, durability, lack of burn-in and plug-and-play functionality. With the top LCDs matching PQ with many of the upper-echelon plasmas, I think it is a viable option - especially now that prices have fallen tremendously.

 

Hope this helps!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also one other question would you reccomend a Blue Ray or HDTV player?
Almost forgot to address this!

 

I'm not flame retardant enough to wade into the format vs format fight, but I will preface my pseudo-answer by saying this: one format will win the war. Like VHS vs Beta, I doubt there is room in the marketplace for two formats to peacefully co-exist. There are lots of manufacturing, industry, development and studio related issues at hand, but none points to a direct favourite. It does seem, from my limited perspective, that Blu-Ray has the edge. Though I also thought sony had it with Beta, and I got it wrong then, so who knows ;)

 

So here's my not-taking sides answer: choose whats best for you... Look at the movies available, and choose whichever format has the most titles you want to buy. Go to your local rental shop and see what they're renting. Whats readily available at your local big-box? In the short term, this is a far better metric for which format to buy than choosing based on technology alone.

 

Hardware is a distant second to content, since in my experience, both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray titles are nearly identical in image and sound quality, and the storage capacity issue has already been made a moot point since they figured out a way to layer HD-DVD discs.

 

Got an Xbox 360? Get the HD-DVD add-on. Recent updates have improved image quality to the point where I now consider the Xbox HD solution only a few points below the Toshiba HD-XA2 player. It lacks a few refinements, is a touch slower overall and doesn't have the (IMHO useless) TrueHD or DTS Master audio output, but is otherwise nearly identical in image quality to the $600 player - plus it plays games good too :)

 

The PS3 is a slightly better overall player than the Xbox solution, with full HDMI 1.3 output support, TrueHD and the like. The Playstation remote is also a helluva lot better too. Though I like the fact that the Xbox solution offloads the movie-playing tasks from the console's main drive (meaning a happier split in MTBF hours), the fact that the PS3 comes with the ability to play HD movies out of the box is a nice touch.

 

If you are going standalone, the Samsung BD-P1200 should hopefully be going on sale at a store near you, as the nearly-identical P1400 is released. The P1200 lacks for nothing, save the esoteric TrueHD and DTS formats mentioned above. If you can't find it on a decent sale, the P1400 is the next logical option, as the retail price is actually lower many places than the MSRP of the P1200.

 

Ditto the old Toshiba HD-A2, which is replaced by the XA-2 I mentioned before. It's easily less than $200 at some online discounters.

 

In the console category, its a 50-50 split, with the prize going to the PS3 for slightly better implementation (if higher overall inital cost), and the Xbox for better, well, everything else (games, online community, etc). In the standalone category, I like the Blu-Ray options better, to be honest. I think they are more refined than the HD-DVD players out there, but again, choose by availability and preference of titles, not format!

 

Lowest average prices online:

 

$200 - Toshiba HD-A2 (not really recommended)

$450 - Samsung BD-P1200

$450 - Samsung BD-P1400

$500 - PS3 60gb

$578 - Xbox 360 Premium (HDMI) with HD-DVD Drive

 

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...