And so it begins again, this time with Intel's new Core2Duo

Angry_Games · September 15, 2006

WARNING:

if you have short attention span, this thread/post is not for you.

If you donated money to us for Conroe cpu's, it is in your best interest to read this in it's entirety.

If you are interested at all in the Conroe cpu, it is in your best interest to read this in it's entirety.

I think traffic is down because Intel have released Conroe and the Infinity is a mediocre performer atm (I have one and I know for a fact that certain types of memory do not work with this board at all on the newer bios versions which have now been pulled by DFI). That's 2 Beta's that have been released that won't even let some users get into bios, let alone overclock.

Ok, after a couple days fooling around, I can assure you that everyone's opinion of what a "mediocre performer" is going to be different.

The core of our users are NOT (and let me repeat that in case everyone gasped and thought I misstated), are NOT the super ultra mega overclocker fiends.

The CORE of our users are middle-of-the-road overclockers who want a motherboard that is decent in price, features, and rich in performance (ie: overclocking).

The 975X/G Infinity, at this moment, is all of those.

Rgone and I had a good laugh on the phone the last few times about certain users showing up complaining that their boards wouldn't overclock to what they THINK it should overclock to.

Knowing that it is an INFINITY, not a LANPARTY, is the number one clue that this board is going to overclock decently to fairly well, but it is NOT going to blast your mind with incomprehensible amounts of overclocking craziness.

That's clue #1.

Clue #2 comes in the form of "what's good for you?" that a lot of one-track minds and narrow-minded individuals put down as crazytalk or wussytalk

as in "haahahah you only overclocked your 2.4Ghz cpu to 3.2Ghz????? YOU SUX0RZ TOTALLY HAHAHAHAHA HEY FREDDY YOU GOTTA HEAR THIS!!! HAHA LAMER ONLY GOT AN 800MHZ OVERCLOCK!!!!"

(this is followed by many many gales of laughter from 1,000 persons present in this fictional confrontation)

but is this realistic?

no

it simply is not

So many times we have to bring a user back to earth and explain to them that YES, they DO live on PLANET EARTH, so maybe they SHOULD come back down to the planet and rejoin society.

What is a great overclock to you, each individual that reads this post?

200Mhz?

400Mhz?

1230Mhz?

What, Angry, is your overall point here?

My point is simply this

Rgone and I have no reason, NO REASON AT ALL to believe that this DFI Infinity 975X/G board (and any future Intel-based board that we produce) will be unable to overclock at LEAST the 6600 (the most popular C2D cpu for users right now) which comes stock at 2400Mhz per core, to 3000Mhz.

A few users, Rgone, and now me, have simply plugged in a 6600 and instantly, easily, and with much stability, clocked these suckers up to 3Ghz.

OMG 3GHZ IS SOOOO WEAKZORZ!!!!

well, as I mentioned earlier, quite possibly to you, the individual that is shouting that in your head and already copying that previous text to rant and rail against me in some nasty little reply, that this is indeed weakzorz...but before you go making any post with all your incessant shouting...

Don't bother.

Here's what I did...

I plugged in this hardware together:

DFI Infinity 975X/G (7.31.2006 bios)

E6600 Core2Duo

2x1GB Buffalo Firestix DDR2-800 (any decent DDR2-800 will foot the bill as far as I am concerned)

ATI X1900XT

2x Seagate 7200.10 16MB cache, 250GB SATA-II @ RAID-0

Antec NEO HE550 psu

Thermalright SI-120 cpu cooler + Thermalright HR-05 chipset cooler

turned it on, finished a 24h Stock Speed Database entry (got to get that entered ASAP, within the next day or two).

For relative performance, we'll just take a quick peek at Aquamark3d, which is very cpu-intensive, and is a good baseline to judge other performances on for a quick comparison.

So here's the Aquamark3d screenshot I procured from a 2870Mhz X2 4800+ AM2 on the new NF590 SLI board, @ 240x12, with the SAME X1900XT vid card, 2GB RAM, etc:

ok, so that's the NF590 @ nearly 2900Mhz per core...pretty decent as far as I am concerned.

Now here's the picture from the soon-to-come Stock Speed Database entry for the stock speed E6600:

EDIT: here is the Stock Speed Database entry:

Core2Duo E6600 Stock Speed Database Entry

well, already at 470Mhz slower, the E6600 setup is showing more performance.

Hey, it's ilke we always joked about when it was the other way around...I remember doing a comparison of the Intel 2.8 Prescott + X1900XT Crossfire (2x cards!) on this very same 975X/G! (...it's in the OC Database!) where I clocked it to 3514Mhz...

and then compared it to my CFX3200 where i clocked a 4400+ up to 2600Mhz (FX-60 speeds) and ran Crossfire X1900XT's and watched it wipe the floor vs a P4 that was almost 1000Mhz faster..

It's just...ironic is all.

ANYWAY

back to my point

point is...as Rgone and I were discussing, it takes almost NO EFFORT to drop the memory divider on the 975X/G board to say...DDR667 (from the default of DDR800), and then start cranking up the bus.

Let's try...300x9 first (about DDR...754 if I remember correctly...remember, we are on a divider...if you don't understand any of this, go read the Overclocking Guide and the AMD Overclocking section for a refresher on overclocking and memory dividers).

300x9 @ 2700Mhz per core for the E6600:

aye, you can see the performance start to pick up (me personally, I have NEVER seen an aquamark3 score of even 117k, so 123k is kinda cool for me!)

ok, so now what?

put the cpu voltage to 1.400v just to make sure there's no issues (stock voltage is 1.325v), crank up the FSB to 334x9 to give me a good clean 3Ghz per core...

EDIT: Overclocking Database entry @ 3.0Ghz/core:

Core2Duo E6600 Overclocking Database Entry

aight...notice how between each test the numbers keep going up

well, duh Angry, that's what we expected

at the same time think about that score...130k in Aquamark. I couldn't even do that with an FX-60 + X1900XT Crossfire cards on my AMD rigs. I don't think we ever even saw such a score on a rig that wasn't super-clocked with crazy cooling (hey, there might be one or three in the OC Database but that kind of score is like serious work for us on AMD).

And what did I do to achieve this?

read back at the beginning nearabouts...

Here's what I did...

I plugged in this hardware together:

DFI Infinity 975X/G (7.31.2006 bios)

E6600 Core2Duo

2x1GB Buffalo Firestix DDR2-800 (any decent DDR2-800 will foot the bill as far as I am concerned)

ATI X1900XT

2x Seagate 7200.10 16MB cache, 250GB SATA-II @ RAID-0

Antec NEO HE550 psu

Thermalright SI-120 cpu cooler + Thermalright HR-05 chipset cooler

turned it on, finished a 24h Stock Speed Database entry (got to get that entered ASAP, within the next day or two)....

to get to 334x9?

simply dropped to DDR667 divider, put 1.400v on the cpu, gave my Buffalo DDR2 2.2v, and then rebooted.

WHAT?

yeah, just rebooted. It's still cranking monster dual-primes behind me (it will easily hit the 8h mark, and I imagine would hit the 800 hour mark if I just left it for months at a time).

Rgone and Tony both have exclaimed that any retail E6600 should never see a problem hitting 3Ghz on these chips with this board and some decent DDR2.

Rgone has assured me that with a little work, he thinks 3.2Ghz to 3.6Ghz is capable (these are such new cpu's that we don't know diddly about steppings, oc quality, oc consistency, etc).

I tend to agree with him.

Watching the numbers on this one benchmark rise, I can see that 3.2Ghz would be MORE THAN ENOUGH for me and the majority of the users in this forum, and 3.2Ghz will whip the pants off any of us "normal" users that are used to easily getting an AMD chip to 2750Mhz, then getting worked going to say 2800Mhz to 2900Mhz.

But Angry, that's just a stupid Aquamark3d benchmark, and we all know it's synthetic, and we all know it's old-skool and not current like 3dmark2006!

well OF COURSE I know that. You think I'd be up here blathering on about what I'm blathering on about if I thought just a stupid Aquamark3d benchmark would impress you?

IF this is what you think, you are missing the entire point of this post, so I guess I better get to it just so I don't lose some stragglers heh

the C2D cpu is...how to put it...quite fantastic.

NORMAL users like you and me, who run a single card, 1280x1024 resolution or lower, air-cooling, and don't spend top-dollar for the top-dollar parts...you guys are EXACTLY who this and future posts of mine are intended for.

YOU GUYS are the ones that make up the majority (60% to 75% of all users here) of buyers. YOU GUYS are the ones who buy our bits and the other bits we tell you and then get the middle overclocks like I am showing you.

10% to 15% of you won't overclock...my posts will still be of interest to you because let's face it, the C2D E6600 @ 2400Mhz is still...the best cpu on the market right now, the best bang for the buck if you want the best performance AND not spend more than necessary.

10% to 15% of you, are already formulating hateful responses and emails and are already typing your nasty little hatreds in other forums telling everyone who will read what a bull crap artist I am, or how I'm so dumb that I couldn't even properly formulate a thought on how to begin spelling the word dumb.

This post...is not for you. YOU ARE THE L337!!!

YOU DON'T NEED ME!!!

YOU LOATHE ME!!!

you've already shattered my sissy little 3.0Ghz overclock adventure

you've probably already hit 4Ghz and think I'm the weakest overclocker on teh internet and should be euthanized.

but

like I said

This post isn't for you. You go on about your business and mind your own affairs, because there's no earth-shattering overclock news going on here.

I'm sure there might be better boards for overclocking currently on the market that are NOT DFI boards (the Asus P5B i think is one right off the top of my head...so I've HEARD...but not actually seen anyone show me a real, honest-to-goodness stable overclock that wasn't achieved with any special cooling nor hand-picked hardware, that will pass the OC Database requirements...)

And I, nor anyone from DFI, ever represented the Infinity 975X/G to be that ultra-mega-supa-maximo overclocker board

no sir, none of us has ever represented it that way at all

What I AM representing the board as is this

It is a very nice board, with a pretty damn good overclocking ability. Nothing to make your girlfriend's mustache catch fire and have her running through the house shrieking...

But for the 60% to 75% of you who are our base customer and like to dabble a bit in some moderate overclocking and enjoy your results and enjoy also not having to have spent a quadrillion dollars on the hardware...this is a VERY NICE board that you and your E6600 (or any C2D chip honestly) will want to take a look at.

Not only does the board quite easily put up a 600-1000Mhz overclock, but...

and here's the kicker

and a bit of ego if I do say so myself

this board is a DFI board

Where else but DFI-Street are you going to...well...whatever it is you love about DFI-Street and keep visiting for? Where else are you going to get that?

Step-by-step tutorials....massive overclocking guides not just telling you how to set your bios for an overclock, but TEACHING you what each thing does (as best as we can decipher it lol) so that you can EXPERIMENT with the settings when a particular setting fails?

Nowhere.

Now that the illustrious and socially evil Angry and his partner in criminal participation Dr Rgone have a Conroe, you can rest assured that we will tell you everything you need to know about it, without the bull crap, without the fanboyism (you KNOW we are both mostly AMD fans!), without the flaming and such.

We'll be providing plenty of Stock Speed Database entries, we'll do our best to begin getting everyone on board by filling up the Overclocking Database with as many entries as we can, we'll make tutorials so you too can learn how to set the neighbor's doghouse on fire just by simply cranking your C2D on @ 3.68Ghz, etc.

HERE'S SOMETHING IMPORTANT THAT I BETTER MENTION ALSO!

all of these tests for right now are being done at 'standard' resolutions

1280x1024, 1024x768 (if you run 800x600, ask mommy for about $30 to buy yourself a real monitor that does 1024x768 lol)

STILL the most common gaming resolutions (and these DO include the widescreen res's like 1440x900 which is basically just 16:10 version of 1280x1024).

Cuz I know how you L337 jobbers are going to complain that those are not realistic resolutions for gamers (drop the crackpipe and sit down and understand that the gaming gods might shine on you, but the real world still uses 1024x768 and 1280x1024 every single day because the real world cannot afford Dell 2407 24" widescreen monitors and 7950X2 x2 @ SLI like you can).

So knowing that, I've got a little monitor here that will do 1600x1200 (CRT, a very nice Mitsubishi Diamondtron that has never even been switched to 1600x1200 except for twice this week to make sure it really will do it!).

I've also got a Crossfire secondary card that I'm gonna jam into the 975X/G just so I can show you what kind of performance @ 1600x1200 this C2D cpu I'm fooling with can do...and then I will test that against the only other Crossfire AMD setup at the moment that I have, which is my current rig, the 4400+ @ 2600Mhz and X1900XT Crossfires.

Just to show you!

I don't honestly have any clue how that comparison will turn out. I wish I had a Crossfire AM2 board because I'm 100% sure that I can get this AM2 cpu that I have to do 3Ghz per core (I've easily hit 2870Mhz, and it also easily hit 2940Mhz with it)

So there's the unknown...what will happen at SLI/Crossfire resolutions of 1600x1200 or more???

We'll find out, and then you'll know even more.

And all this time, Rgone is not even bothering to do much but grunt, ash his cig in the ashtray, and then crank up the FSB on his E6700 three more FSB and reboot, trying to hit 4Ghz.

See, Rgone and I work together as a perfect pair (like a matched pair of memory haha!).

I'm the school-nerd overclocker who just wants to know he can buy a $360 cpu and make it run as fast as the $1150 top-end cpu (X6800 methinks)

Rgone...he's the crazy scientist from Flash Gordon who built a rocketship in his greenhouse, and then blasts off with a pro football player and a socialite into space and tries to save the universe (cue up the "Flash Gordon" theme song by Queen).

Rgone's overclocking can not only catch your neighbor's doghouse on fire from across the street, but I've heard it can bring down military transport places flying support out in the Pacific.

Ok well maybe that's a bit much, but everyone that has read anything here in the last few months knows that Rgone doesn't go for the 'weak' overclocks that I was just talking about that some of you more elitist clockers tend to think of us as getting.

Rgone likes to hang with the boys from XS and others, and get the crazy scores.

So you not only got us with support, this forum for all the tutorials and info, and weak little old me doing grandma overclocks (that 60% to 75% of you grandma's do right along with me), but you got some crazy old bastard who wouldn't think twice about burning his own house down to hit 4.4Ghz on a C2D clocking session.

He's gonna come through here once in a while and agree with me, that if you little sissies cannot get at least 3Ghz out of your E6600 like girly-man Angry who wears dresses while overclocking can get, then you need to stop overclocking.

Period.

End of Story.

Because if Angry can just dump in bits and hit 3Ghz, then any one-armed, nerve-gassed, braindead idjit can do the same.

And you got to be smarter than Angry_Games...and better skilled...(don't admit it if you are not...you will just get lots of rocks and stones thrown at you).

So...after all this yapping and ranting...did I ever make a point?

I sure did kids.

As you can sense, the E6600 was a lot of hype to me, and I railed against it myself.

After spending a couple days with it, and just starting to unleash the beast that is in it, I've got to admit that I am starting to feel the excitement...an excitement that I have not felt since...socket 754/939 when we got the new AMD64 cpu's and they were clocking like....well....you know!

Am I going to sit here and over-hype something to you?

Nope

I'm going to be honest and say "well, I've had the chip a couple days, and while it overclocks smooth as silk, and the performance numbers so far are pretty darn satisfying, this doesn't mean anything except for those 60% to 75% that are on the same page as me, and who sings the same tune as me when it comes to pc's and overclocking".

Translated: I'm very much impressed, but my few benchmarks and overclocks to this point aren't enough to really really convince me yet.

I WANT TO PLAY SOME REAL GAMES AND RIP SOME REAL DVD'S AND COPY SOME REAL FILES AND DO SOME REAL THINGS

and I am going to...but everyone wants to know what's up in a preliminary fashion, and I'm here to tell you that if you ARE the 60% to 75% that like to overclock but aren't like Rgone, and you still use 1280x1024 or lower resolutions (or 1440x900 widescreen etc), then this is EXACTLY why you donated money to help us get these cpu's...because preliminarily (is that a $#@$#@ word even??? lol), these cpu's rock, and the 975X/G board might not be the supa-monsta-mega-juice-juice overclocker that the Lanparty board(s) are supposed to be, but it DOES overclock quite nicely, and you DO get all the extra benefits that come along with owning a DFI motherboard (other than getting a boot to the butt when you break forum rules!).

I, and Rgone, have LOTS of testing left to do. 3Ghz is just a starting point for me, so I can get an OCDB entry up and show you all that the performance is there, as is the overclocking potential, and like always, as time goes on, the motherboards will get better, as will the cpu's and their yields, as well as the gpu's and RAM, which in turn leads to better performance, faster overclocks, and more taunting in the end zone to your opponents when you do the "OC Shuffle" (this is the celebration dance in the end-zone where you rub a video card up and down your crotch while dancing the two-step in you opponent's FACE! heh).

Lots more testing and posting to come.

But

I got to say, If I were going to jump into the DDR2 arena, and weren't needing SLI, I'd have to go with the Core2Duo setup right now.

Oh, and let's face reality...so you game. A lot. More than a lot. An addiction maybe. Enough that you crap yourself and just get arrested once every two weeks so they'll hose you down in the jailhouse, and you can get some food and rest for a week until you get released so you can go gaming again, repeating the cycle.

But

do you GAME ALL THE TIME?

aye, you do NOT.

You browse the web (yawn), do email (boring), surf for porn (all right! getting interesting!), download porn , edit porn (booyah!), rip non-adult dvd's (boo!!!), do spreadsheets, compile numbers, god only knows what all you do with your machine, but I guarantee you use it for a lot more than gaming.

And that is probably the strongest reason to look into the C2D line from Intel (dratted Intel...why wouldn't they just SEND US A CPU???).

it performs as well if not better than any AMD cpu on the market right now.

the cpu is simply so strong and efficient at everyday tasks, that even at stock speed you won't even worry about overclocking.

Only during gaming would you really need to overclock the thing...and that's the great thing...because the thing is (you say thing one more %@#$# time and we'll fight!) you can EASILY overclock these things.

but Angry, aren't you sorta being retarded by spouting all of this after only having a SINGLE C2D and only having it for a couple of days?

pfft...maybe you are right!

no, not really...Rgone has one, Tony has one, there's probably a good 20 of us in our little circle of friends that have one, and I doubt a single one of them would come in here and disagree with anything I have said.

The truth is, if 2.4Ghz isn't fast enough for you, you can get it up the 3Ghz without any hassles.

If 3Ghz isn't fast enough for you (are you really NEEDING that much more?), then you can probably squeeze 3.2 - 3.6 out the cpu + Infinity motherboard.

If 3.6Ghz isn't fast enough for you...then you need to wait for the Lanparty version, or run off and buy yourself an Asus P5B or whatever else is out on the market that is hot hot hot for overclocking and whips the little DFI Infinity 975X/G.

But

it won't be the same as owning a DFI, because the communities for those "other" boards are different, or you have to hang out at an elitist place like XS (which honestly DOES have a lot of VERY GOOD members who are VERY HELPFUL) where a few might have your board, but most will not, or those that do might not help you, or they might only show you a 1MB super-pi and try to tell you that it is 100% stable...you know, all the benefits I've harped on repeatedly about why DFI-Street is the best blah blah blah.

Here at the Street, you get users who have the same mobo as you, and most of the time enough have the cpu/memory/psu etc that you have, so it's very easy to get together and challenge each other to find out the limits of your hardware setups.

Now, I know there's been a few things said about how our Infinity 975X/G is limiting, or not doing this, or not doing that, etc etc when it comes to overclocking.

To that, I say *YAWN* and walk away from a thread/conversation.

I don't really care that YOU think the board should do 460FSB.

Seriously.

I don't.

Most (more spouting about the 60% to 75% of us NORMAL users who spend money, not you 10% to 15% that won't overclock nor you 10% to 15% that think you are god's gift to the overclocking universe) of us here don't either.

So your board won't go over 369FSB.

I mean...what do you expect?

You expect our boards to be the magical White Tower in the Shire of Overclocking?

Get a little reality in yourself...please.

And please don't bother with the argument of "but this Johnson DXX400 motherboard allows my same hardware to do 369FSB!!!"

well...so go play with your Johnson (heh!). Wouldn't you be happier playing with your Johnson instead of complaining bitterly that your DFI won't do 369FSB?

I would.

Point of that is...none of us (again) have ever represented the current DFI Infinity 975X/G as the world's best C2D overclocking motherboard.

The only thing we've represented is that it WILL overclock quite nicely for the overwhelming majority of users (60% to 75%!!! heh), and that is not really that hard, and that if you do get a DFI, you get all of these lovely take-home prizes...tell them what they've won Bob!

Today you've won not only the DFI Infinity 975X/G board and C2D cpu, but you've also won the ability to overclock enough to satisfy you and your friends! You've won a top community for DFI products that is more helpful than any other 10 forums on earth combined when it comes to DFI products! You've won the ability to have vast amounts of information and step-by-step picture and video tutorials! You've won the right to...

ah well you know

I tend to repeat myself a lot just to make sure everyone understands that the story doesn't change, and that you understand the point.

A few of you will walk away from this angry with me, calling me names, saying I don't know crap from fake crap (heh, I do! The smell is the difference!), and are angry that I insulted you (those of you super-mega-big-big overclockers that fall into that 10% to 15%).

98% of you will walk away from this, eyes bleeding from all the words, telling yourself "this is exactly why the %$#@$ we gave those two losers the money to buy the Conroe cpu's".

Oh, and if there's this much already after 3 days of E6600 ownership, imagine the fun we will have kids, as the cpu's and motherboards get better and better.

Performance will only go up...

and wait until we start fooling around with C2D's and 4GB of RAM on Windows Vista, which is a terrible resource hog but it is made purely with multithreaded cpu's in mind...

supa!

well, that's all for now.

I will update with benchmarks from the SSDB, OCDB, and Rgone and others will come around and speculate that I am either pretty damn close to correct on my assumptions and observations, or that I am crazier than a *#@@#-house rat.

I vote I am both

ps:

ok, guess i better start squashing some bits of nasty rumor and speculation right off the bat.

Raju, Rgone and I like you big-big my man, but here's some reality doseage for ya

Now we all know that it takes time to get a good bios, but on this board and it's given timescale many other boards are now more useable and have more working bios revisions.

hrmm

7/31/2006 works just fine

The # of 'working bios revisions' a board is supposed to have is...how many exactly? Is there a hard answer for this? A book with the exact number?

No, I'm afraid there is no such thing.

20 of us with the board (thereabouts) and we all have quite different hardware other than majority having E6600 and 6700 cpu's and all of us having DFI Infinity 975X/G motherboards...and we don't see much wrong with the 7/31/2006 bios at all.

In FACT *gasp*, the only real vocal person at the moment is Rgone, who is unhappy that the bios won't allow him to get 12Ghz overclocks on the board.

However

Rgone is *gasp* bound in reality.

He'll tell you as much that the 7/31 bios is just fine, he just doesn't PERSONALLY like it because it won't allow him to burn down a forest from a continent away with his usual massive overclocks (but he's also realistic enough to know that all of this, the C2D, the 975, DDR2, all of that is very new for all of us, so he, you, me, we might all be putting forth judgement a little too early on the overclocking potential).

Rgone and myself were lucky enough to have ram that works well enough with this board, and have managed to get every bios revision working to some extent.

gee, I guess I am lucky too.

I got 5 kits of DDR2 and all of them work 100% with the board. Not a single problem getting it to boot, not with an old-school 2.8Ghz Prescott, not with the Pentium D 930 Presler dual-core, and not with the new Conroe cpu's.

No problems.

Our little group of friends...nary a major problem. Usually something minor like needing the bios updated to 7/31 or a DRAM or cpu or some bios setting needing slightly adjusted.

I don't think Rgone is "lucky" any more than you are.

I think those having problems are the ones who are "unlucky" enough to have a board that has small circulation in user hands to be able to walk them through any kind of troubleshooting.

Like most of our boards, and most of every motherboard mfg's boards, there is n't a "problem" with them that requires any screaming while running through the streets, nor is there a "problem" with them that requires one or more of you to jump up on the soapbox and exclaim loudly that only you and Rgone are lucky enough to have the hardware and skills to make it work.

I DO pay attention to the forum and tech email...and the number of boards in user hands vs the number of problems we've seen...very very minute, ranging in the typical-for-any-motherboard range.

Here's the part where you either try to rebuff what I've just said, or accept my statement at face value knowing that I am the support manager for DFI-USA and I DO read these forums more than any user here, and I do see all of the "official" tech support email requests, and I know what I am talking about.

It is solid for x6700 overclocks and can even handle X6600's but anything lower hits an fsb wall to early. Budget minded users have been buying lower end Conroe's and have been searching for highr fsb motherboards. That being said the most anticipated Conroe board is the DFI version of the ATI R600 chipset.

here you are a little too quick to judge. As I mentioned, how long has the board been around? How much experience does the community as a whole have with it? How can you knowingly say such a thing when you yourself are not really doing anything but repeating what someone else has said on some forum, knowing that a support forum's main purpose is to give people a place to come and complain that something doesn't work?

Small C2D users that I've seen so far haven't done much complaining. If you are going solely by the small bits you've seen here or at a few other forums, then you need to re-read my previous statement about the difference in what information you are basing your judgements from compared to where I get my information.

I don't have any qualms about recommending ANY C2D cpu for our 975X/G board.

And

here's the kicker

even IF 6400 and lower users hit a wall before say a 6700 user will, that is PURELY OPINION on the levels of performance reached.

Just because YOU would be unhappy that your E6400 would only do 3Ghz does not, by any stretch, mean that Jose Sixpack would not be very happy to see his 1.87Ghz Conroe hitting 2.7Ghz...3Ghz...etc.

You guys tend to forget that you are very very very very very minute in terms of overall users...you guys who think that a board and cpu must give you some crazy 4Ghz overclock, just because 3 guys at another forum on a different mobo (using strange, exotic cooling most likely with hand-picked parts and pieces, and not showing any stability except...1MB and 32MB super-pi screenshots?), you guys are not typical customers.

I know you like to think you are, but as I've mentioned 200,000 times already, 60% to 75% of the users here are not like you, they only care to get some overclock bang-for-their buck and aren't going to complain if their E6300 won't hit 4Ghz, and the other 10% to 15% that won't even overclock...they won't complain at all.

Hate to throw down such a harsh reality on ya, but it's the truth.

now, before you get all bent out of shape Raju, please accept my apology for using you as the example....you were the last post and raised all ofthe same old arguments that others try to raise that just aren't realistic.

No personal affront intended to you, you can ask Rgone and he'll tell you that I like you just fine, and are a valuable member of the Intel section and ATI AMD section, so it's not that I meant to call you out and insult you in front of everyone to exact some kind of revenge.

It's not that at all.

It's like I said...you raised all the questions that others raise that take us too much time to have to fight with reality answers, so I figured I had better alert the community at-large that reads this that your questions or concerns are not really valid in reality as the 60% to 75% and 10% to 15% non-clockers will have.

That 70% to 85% will be interested to know that the concerns raised by you are either not founded in fact (the part about how you must be lucky as you seem to think you are the only one with a working board and it must be the board's fault!), or not founded in reality (that the board doesn't overclock as well as Joe-Bob from XS who has triple-phase-change -165C cooling on some Abit or Asus board that has probably been volt-modded, and god-knows-what-else.

I think you are wise enough to understand exactly where I am coming from with this post, though again I apologize if you take it as a personal attack.

It was NOT meant to be personal attack at all, you were just the last guy in line to post and you happened to raise all the right flags that I needed to address.

though you might still hate me for it, everyone else will understand it when I say it was necessary to get all of that out for everyone to read.

I'm gonna go watch some TV while this E6600 is still happily and easily priming away @ 3Ghz per core.

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And so it begins again, this time with Intel's new Core2Duo

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