Noobie OC attempts on Opty 165 & Ultra-D

[Quinn]

Hi folks,

 

After finishing getting my W/C installed, I decided to try to OC my setup. I have read the OC stickies (several times) as well as looking for similar setups in the OC database and forums. Armed with that info, I've made my first round of attempts.

 

As was suggested in the sticky, I lowered my memory divder (to 140Mhz), so that I could locate my CPU max speed. Doing this I progressively cranked up the FSB speed. I was able to run at FSB of 260Mhz with no other changes. Attempting 275Mhz resulted in rebooting immediately after BIOS initialization. I then tried to progressively increase the CPU voltage (startup, core, and special) in various combinations to get 275 to work. After reaching 1.62v (core * special), and still not getting things to work, I stopped. At this point, I decided to use settings from a similar CPU/mobo from the OC database to get this FSB speed work. I tried a number of voltage and DRAM settings combinations, still no joy.

 

The settings I used at the highest working point and the settings for next jump I'm trying to make are as follows:

 

Genie BIOS Settings: ......... (works) ............. (don't work)

............................... Stock .............. Changed To

 

FSB Bus Frequency ........... - 260 ................ 275

LDT/FSB Frequency Ratio ..... - Auto ............... Auto

CPU/FSB Frequency Ratio ..... - x 9.0 .............. x 9.0

PCI eXpress Frequency ....... - 100Mhz ............. 100Mhz

 

CPU VID StartUp Value ....... - Startup ............ 1.350v

 

CPU VID Control ............. - Auto (1.310v) ...... 1.350v

CPU VID Special Control ..... - Auto ............... Above VID * 120% (1.620v)

LDT Voltage Control ......... - 1.20v .............. 1.20v

Chip Set Voltage Control .... - 1.50v .............. 1.50v

DRAM Voltage Control ........ - 2.70v .............. 2.70v

 

DRAM Configuration Settings:

 

DRAM Frequency Set .......... - 166=RAM/FSB:05/06 .. 140=RAM/FSB:07/10

Command Per Clock (CPC) ..... - Auto ............... Auto

CAS Latency Control (Tcl) ... - Auto ............... Auto

RAS# to CAS# delay (Trcd) ... - Auto ............... Auto

Min RAS# active time (Tras) . - Auto ............... Auto

Row precharge time (Trp) .... - Auto ............... Auto

Row Cycle time (Trc) ........ - Auto ............... 13 Bus Clocks

Row refresh cyc time (Trfc) . - 07 Bus Clocks ...... 16 Bus Clocks

Row to Row delay (Trrd) ..... - 03 Bus Clocks ...... 03 Bus Clocks

Write recovery time (Twr) ... - 03 Bus Clocks ...... 03 Bus Clocks

Write to Read delay (Twtr) .. - 02 Bus Clocks ...... 02 Bus Clocks

Read to Write delay (Trwt) .. - 03 Bus Clocks ...... 03 Bus Clocks

Refresh Period (Tref) ....... - 3120 Cycles ........ 2560 Cycles

DRAM Bank Interleave ........ - Enabled ............ Enabled

 

DQS Skew Control ............ - Auto ............... Increase

DQS Skew Value .............. - 0 .................. 220

DRAM Drive Strength ......... - Auto ............... 8

DRAM Data Drive Strength .... - Auto ............... 1

Max Async Latency ........... - Auto ............... Auto

DRAM Response Time .......... - Fast ............... Fast

Read Preamble Time .......... - Auto ............... Auto

IdleCycle Limit ............. - 256 Cycles ......... 4 Cycles

Dynamic Counter ............. - Disable ............ Disable

R/W Queue Bypass ............ - 16 x ............... 4 x

Bypass Max .................. - 04 x ............... 02 x

32 Byte Granularity ......... - Disable(4 Bursts)... Disable(4 Bursts)

 

I'm a little overwhelmed at the sheer number of settings, especially for the RAM, which I'm hoping isn't a issue due to the divider setting. I'll experiment with that, once I feel I've found the CPU max speed. Its unclear to me what is holding my speed back. I'd welcome any suggestions from experienced OC'ers on what might be a good next step to determine what is limiting my CPU speed.

 

A couple of other questions. Are LTD and Chipset voltages typically tweaked to achieve higher speeds? The settings in the OC database are quite a bit different from the stock settings my BIOS is using. I can see that everyone using my mobo/cpu combination is using a custom BIOS. I can only assume that most of the settings I see in the OC database are a result of using these custom BIOSes. Is there any benefit to using a custom BIOS as a starting point rather than a stock BIOS? If custom is the way to go, which might be better for generic value memory (can't afford new memory right now)?

 

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[BadWillHunting]

... reduce the voltage first... you're only running 270HTT, I haven't heard of a 165 core around (even the CCBWE) that needs anything over 1.5v to hit that speed.

 

Also, set your TRC and TWRC to Auto and get yourself into memory settings that you can boot with (one of those seems really high) and then use A64 Info or something similar to check what the memory settings went to on Auto.

[Quinn]

... reduce the voltage first... you're only running 270HTT, I haven't heard of a 165 core around (even the CCBWE) that needs anything over 1.5v to hit that speed.

I returned everything to FSB 260 speed to make it work.

Also, set your TRC and TWRC to Auto and get yourself into memory settings that you can boot with (one of those seems really high) and then use A64 Info or something similar to check what the memory settings went to on Auto.

I had originally tried it with all the BIOS defaults and it didn't work. I'll try it again with your recommendations set to "Auto". Will also drop the mem divider down further.

 

Will report back.

[Quinn]

Ok, a few more attempts at 275 FSB:

 

Things I set: (from working 260Mhz settings)

- all the DRAM timings to "Auto"

- RAM divider to 100Mhz

- CPU startup to 1.45v from "startup"

- CPU Core to 1.45v from 1.31v

- LDT voltage to 1.30v from 1.20v

- Chipset voltage to 1.60v from 1.50v

- FSB to 275Mhz from 260

- LDT divider "Auto" to 3x

 

Attempted to boot. Got past BIOS initialization and failed complaining about not being able to load a Windows file.

 

Next changes:

- DRAM voltages to 2.80v from 2.60v

 

Attempted to boot, actually got the windows splash screen. Few seconds later BSOD about a bad IRQ.

 

Next changes:

- DRAM voltages to 2.90v from 2.80v

- LDT voltage back to 1.20v

- Chipset voltage back to 1.50v

 

Attempt boot. At end of BIOS initialization, it rebooted.

 

Returned settings to working 260Mhz....

 

Complete set of "before" and "after" settings attached.

 

Considering the stepping level of the CPU, it seems I should be able to pass this point easily. Must be something I'm missing.

[BadWillHunting]

I wouldn't change the LDT voltage from stock... no one has reported gains from doing that and many have indicated it reduces stability.

 

how are your CPU and PWMIC temps at 260?

 

Sounds like you're following the Overclocking Guide if you dropped the divider to 1:2 (100). Still, you could be limited by the generic RAM for whatever other reason, and I know a lot of people have trouble getting good O/C with 4 sticks installed vs 2 sticks. You may have one out of the four sticks that is not getting it done, also.

 

Try yanking two sticks and see how you do.. if you increase the O/C by trying one set vs the other (remember to set 1T with only one set in the CPC enabled setting when you have only one pair in), then the ram isn't all created equal. Since the memory controller is on-die, this can cause probs while overclocking even if the RAM is underclocked.

[Guest caffeinejunkie]

your problem is you simply cant make 15mhz fsb jumps. What you need to do is owkr in 2-5mhz intervals with 20-30runs of memtest #5/8 so you dont corrupt windows then boot up to run like occt 1/2hr. If it passes sweet keep going if not add the smallest ammount of voltage possible using the cpuvid.

 

 

with my setup any extra ldt/chipset voltage causes instability.

[Quinn]

I wouldn't change the LDT voltage from stock... no one has reported gains from doing that and many have indicated it reduces stability.

I've seen a few OC database settings with higher LDT, but it was unclear to me if that was THEIR default, or they had increased it.

 

how are your CPU and PWMIC temps at 260?

With tolerable case/radiator fan speeds, my PWMIC is 48C at idle range and 55C range at full load.

 

Sounds like you're following the Overclocking Guide if you dropped the divider to 1:2 (100). Still, you could be limited by the generic RAM for whatever other reason, and I know a lot of people have trouble getting good O/C with 4 sticks installed vs 2 sticks. You may have one out of the four sticks that is not getting it done, also.

 

Try yanking two sticks and see how you do.. if you increase the O/C by trying one set vs the other (remember to set 1T with only one set in the CPC enabled setting when you have only one pair in), then the ram isn't all created equal. Since the memory controller is on-die, this can cause probs while overclocking even if the RAM is underclocked.

Having tried many of the tips and techniques identified here, and having good components for everything BUT my ram, I beginning to suspect it as well. The part that confuses me is that this RAM runs fine at speeds upto 230Mhz. However now, even after dropping to very slow speeds, it doesn't quite make sense to me that it would be the problem. But, things don't always make sense. I'm considering dropping by a local Fry's to "borrow" (buy & return) some decent memory just to test this theory out. I'd be quite happy to find it was my ram that is limiting me, even if it can't understand why.

 

In the meantime, I'll try reducing to 2 sticks and do some swapping around and see if anything changes.

[Quinn]

your problem is you simply cant make 15mhz fsb jumps. What you need to do is owkr in 2-5mhz intervals with 20-30runs of memtest #5/8 so you dont corrupt windows then boot up to run like occt 1/2hr. If it passes sweet keep going if not add the smallest ammount of voltage possible using the cpuvid.

As with the vast majority of these CPUs and mobo combination reaching well above 275Mhz FSB speeds, I was attempting fairly coarse steps forward initially. As I approached the limits of this HW combinations, I fully expected and planned to step forward in increasingly smaller increments. However, I don't think I'm close to where this HW *should be* capable of reaching. I can do the fine grain steps you describe, and now I'd likely end up between 265-270Mhz. However, I'm looking for that breakthrough setting that'll make my rig OC in the neighborhood of other like systems. Since this is my first DFI/AMD combo, I am assuming (and hoping) I'm got something configured wrong and that is what is holding me back.

 

with my setup any extra ldt/chipset voltage causes instability.

Not sure the +0.1v on the LDT & Chipset made it any worse. But, I bumped these things simply because the Sticky said to set them to even higher level than what I did and I was curious to see if those changes allowed the system to run at 275.

[Quinn]

Latest update:

 

I bought a 2x1GBr of OCZ PC-4000 Gold Edition GX XTC (OCS5002048ELGEGCT-K) memory sticks.

 

I replaced my 4x512MB generic ram with these. I put them in the "orange" slots (3 & 4, I believe). I attempted to boot at 260MHz FSB, which has worked fine with the generic sticks, and it hangs right after BIOS initialization. Now I'm figuring "what the heck". The only thing that changed was the RAM. So I drop the FSB, down the 250, still no boot. I decide to try memtest, to ensure I'm not getting any errors. Guess what, it hangs as it starting memtest. Drop it down to 240 and change the divider to 1:1 (from 5:6), memtest runs. I didn't let it run long, now I'm curious. My default RAM voltage is 2.6v. I decide to raise to 2.8v. At 250, Memtest still won't run. I bump it up to 2.9v, and memtest runs! Ok, I'm making some progress. I try 260, memtests runs. I try 270, memtest runs. I let it run thru test #5. It fails all over the place. I move the voltage upto 3.0v, and still fails at test #5. Ok, this is wierd, this is good memory, it should be running fine at these voltages (me thinks). So I decide to drop the divider down to 180. Memtest won't even load now! What this makes no sense. 1:1 divider runs, and 9:10 doesn't? Ok, since I'm really trying to determine max cpu speed, lets try to get the memory out of the equation. I drop the divider down to 100 1:2, memtest runs. I let run thru test #5, everything is good. I advance the FSB 10 to 280, and memtest loads (wow, this is highest this rig has run). memtest thru test 5, no problems, I continue to advance by 10 the FSB, and I get all the way to 330 before it fails. So I drop it back down to 320, figuring thats close to my max cpu. I willing to sacrifice a few Mhz for stability. So I then advance my mem divider. Move to 120, memtest runs ok. I move it to 133 and as memtest loads, i get all sorts of screen corruption. Even at 320 FSB, I'm still below the 250Mhz this memory is supposed to handle. Hmm, I ask myself what it means, but I don't know, this doesn't make sense. I put the divider back to 120, and figure, lets try to boot windows. Well, nice idea, but no joy. I get the splash screen, then it reboots. Ok, drop the FSB down 300 to try. Windows boots, but then freezes. Hmm, more puzzlement. What should I do? I decide to try to up the RAM voltage a bit more. I move it up to 3.1v. Windows boots and stays running. I load OCCT, and it fails during the "idle" test. So now I'm trying to figure out what I need to tweak next.

 

I'm confused why the RAM dividers don't appear to work the way I expect. Why in my earlier tests, did 200 work when 180 didn't?. At the current speeds (300+ FSB), why does only 1:2 and 3:5 work, when 2:3 doesn't? 2:3 at 300 FSB should equal 200Mhz memory speed, which is well within the 250Mhz this memory is suppose to support? How much voltage can OCZ gold stick handle? Is 3.1v too much? Or can I push them 3.2v? Should I need to push them this hard?

 

I got memtest to run w/o errors at 320 FSB. Is it reasonable to think I should be able to get windows to run at or near this speed? Or is max succesful memtest speed typically higher than what one can see running stably with windows?

 

I'm glad to have broken through the barrier preventing me from going about 260 FSB, but now I'd like to get my ram running close to it rated speed.

 

One last detail, is I'm obtained these speeds I've not raised anything but the ram voltage. Is this pretty good speed for stock voltages?

 

I apologize the rambling, and all the ramdom questions, but I wanted to relate the steps that I had followed, so I could get advice on any mistakes I have likely made. Bear with me please, this is my first OC and much of the settings and techniques are new to me.

 

I'd appreciate any feedback you'd care to share with me on my current set of issues.

[Praz]

You should find your setup in the the SSDB or OCDB and get your ram timings right.

[TeaBoy]

Are your memory timings set to Auto in the BIOS? I think, (according to my experiences with my mothorboard), that when you have memory timings set to Auto and you drop the divider the motherboard will automatically tighten the timings thinking that the memory is running slower and can therefore handle it. Of course you end up overclocking the memory back towards its original speeds but with the tighter timings and your PC bombs out.

 

I'm not 100% sure if this will work but it got me past 2.4Ghz and up tp 2.7+ Find out what timings your memory will handle at 200Mhz, (you could put your PC back to stock levels, boot to windows and run CPU-Z to find your default timings), drop the divider back to 133 or whatever you are happy with and then manually change the timings to the 200Mhz values. Good luck.

[Wild Thing]

Try these settings:

 

DRAM Frequency Set............................ - 166=RAM/FSB: 05/06

Command Per Clock (CPC)....................... - Enable

CAS Latency Control (Tcl)..................... - 3

RAS# to CAS# delay (Trcd)..................... - 4

Min RAS# active time (Tras)................... - 8

Row precharge time (Trp)...................... - 4

Row Cycle time (Trc).......................... - 12 Bus Clocks

Row refresh cyc time (Trfc)................... - 16 Bus Clocks

Row to Row delay (Trrd)....................... - 02 Bus Clocks

Write recovery time (Twr)..................... - 02 Bus Clocks

Write to Read delay (Twtr).................... - 02 Bus Clocks

Read to Write delay (Trwt).................... - 03 Bus Clocks

Refresh Period (Tref)......................... - 3120

DRAM Bank Interleave.......................... - Enabled

DQS Skew Control.............................. - Auto

DQS Skew Value................................ - 0

DRAM Drive Strength........................... - 7

DRAM Data Drive Strength...................... - 3 (Reduce 15%)

Max Async Latency............................. - 8.0 Nano Seconds

DRAM Response Time............................ - Fast

Read Preamble Time............................ - 6.0 Nano Seconds

IdleCycle Limit............................... - 016 Cycles

Dynamic Counter............................... - Disable

R/W Queue Bypass.............................. - 16x

Bypass Max.................................... - 07x

32 Byte Granularity........................... - Disable(4 Bursts)