[RESOLVED]GOOD READ...HE GOT FIXED... Dis-enchanted!! Cold boot issue

[Guest GripS]

"Any ideas why the rig will boot if I leave the PSU swith in the "ON" position all of the time?"

 

It's supposed to be left on. Some PSU's don't even have this switch. As long as it's plugged in it is supplying power to the board. Turning the toggle switch to the off position on the PSU is not necessary.

 

Tearing a computer down is fairly easy provided you don't have a watercooled machine. I see no problem with dissassembling the system if it becomes necessary. Sure it's a pain. But it also gives you another chance at tidying up the cables just a little bit more.

[old_geekster]

Thanks for the replies, Badmonkey005 and GripS!

 

I had more or less come to this conclusion, as evidencd by my actions, but it is nice to hear it from others -- two, three or four heads are better than one that really isn't knowledgeable on the subject, but learning day by day!!

 

I guess I will approach the "Techs" over at Bleedingedge" to get their input.

 

At first this thread was to get help for a problem, now, I hope that keeping it going will help others with similar problems. It has had more "Viewers" than I ever could have imagined. I know from experience, many of them, the viewers, are having similar problems, but are too shy to post themselves. While nobody here would ever be-little anyone, that is the fear. Here is to them!

 

p.s. I am up to 10 days and counting without a "cold boot". I am still OC'd to 2.6. My goal was to reach FX-60 speeds and I did. I haven't Primed it yet, but I have been playing games without a glitch. If it does that, it is Prime enough for me!

[RGone]

"Any ideas why the rig will boot if I leave the PSU swith in the "ON" position all of the time?"

 

Yep. Take the 7900GTX out and put an ATI 300 or other lower demand video card in it and bet it cranks everytime even after turning the power supply rocker switch off and back on the next morning.

 

RGone...

[wevsspot]

When your power supply is left connected and turned on it is storing energy in the coils and various other resistors and capacitors in the power supply, not to mention the power circuits on the motherboard. Lets call this "fully charged". When you unplug your power supply or turn off the rocker switch the power supply begins to dissipate this stored energy, quicker when the psu is unplugged than when it is just turned off by the rocker. But after prolonged periods of no incoming voltage the power supply would be in a state that we'll call "discharged". Now don't go putting your hand into your power supply even if we are calling it "discharged".

 

So let's suppose that your power supply is discharged, as well as all of the power circuits on your motherboard. You plug your psu on or turn it on via the rocker switch and it "begins" charging, and you throw the power switch on your computer and you hit your partially charged psu and mostly discharged motherboard power circuits with the need to deliver 300 watts or more at startup. It just ain't gonna happen.

 

Just like your truck ain't gonna start in the morning after you've left the lights on all night long.

 

This might be an over-simple explanation explained in backwoods redneck, but it's the gospel truth.

[old_geekster]

When your power supply is left connected and turned on it is storing energy in the coils and various other resistors and capacitors in the power supply, not to mention the power circuits on the motherboard. Lets call this "fully charged". When you unplug your power supply or turn off the rocker switch the power supply begins to dissipate this stored energy, quicker when the psu is unplugged than when it is just turned off by the rocker. But after prolonged periods of no incoming voltage the power supply would be in a state that we'll call "discharged". Now don't go putting your hand into your power supply even if we are calling it "discharged".

 

So let's suppose that your power supply is discharged, as well as all of the power circuits on your motherboard. You plug your psu on or turn it on via the rocker switch and it "begins" charging, and you throw the power switch on your computer and you hit your partially charged psu and mostly discharged motherboard power circuits with the need to deliver 300 watts or more at startup. It just ain't gonna happen.

 

Just like your truck ain't gonna start in the morning after you've left the lights on all night long.

 

This might be an over-simple explanation explained in backwoods redneck, but it's the gospel truth.

Thanks, RGone.

 

Thanks to you also, wevsspot.

 

I believe what the two of you are saying is correct! I guess I am not, however, sure why this can't be corrected by DFI or if it is even a flaw. There I go being realistic!

 

For the two of you and the many others who are following my saga, here is an interesting post from "Bleedingedge":

 

http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10453

 

This goes along with what has been said in the previous two posts. But it doesn't answer my question as to why it can't be corrected.

 

I am not attempting to stir up trouble, just want to understand why my rig is operating the way it is. I have never been one to take things at face value. Nor do I accept answers that I don't understand. I keep digging until I find an answer that helps me understand the problem, even with my meager knowledge of the subject. Then, I know that anybody will understand if I do! This is a help forum and if I can assist others, even in a limited way, then I feel good about it.

 

The post from "Bleedingedge" documents my problem very closely and compliments RGone and wevsspot's posts.

 

p.s. I had another successful boot this morning. The power switch has never been switched to the "OFF" position. I am becoming more convinced than ever that the problem described is the the solution.

[RGone]

"old_geekster" how old do you have to be to be an old geekster? In a few short days I will be 59. Is that aged enough to be an old geekster? Hehehehe. Most that do not know me think I am 27 or less because I fool with over-clocking and will push a board so hard it may melt the memory sockets off the board. I almost died when H/AG wrote that to all the max wheels at DFI. So what's the point? Just trying to give a little background for what I am about to say.

 

I have been fooling with computers for ~10 years. Put off getting one for 10years because I raced cars and bikes and built high po engines and the like. I put off puters so they did not 'eat' into my time for other more athletic pursuits. But I approached computers the same as with my racing and engine building. Attention to details and 'read', 'read' everything I could get my hands on about How, What and Why. A+ personality you understand? Suddenly my A+ personality trait was a huge handicap. Do what? Say what? Yep it was. I did NOT have enough time left in life to go back to the ground level and study everything necessary to TRY to know WHAT and WHY. Not enough life left for such stuff.

 

So what did I do to get by this personality trait that befalls A+ type personalities? Google, google and more google. Took the answers from many perspectives and knew the answer is between the perspectives. Yep most of the time the answers were a composite of what most spoke about when they tried to 'detail' an answer about some issue or theory.

 

So where are we today as relates your situation? Osnull's situation and your situation are not the same. Nope! He had memory that went EOL in less than 6 months. End of Life. End of life because is was an idea whose time came an went in a flash. VX was UTT that was built around the CH-6 downsized die and it could not stand up to the rigors of 12 month prior BH-5 full fledged old style memory. So there were many reasons given for the issues with the memory but the end result was EOL of that type memory by ALL manufacturers. Board still here but the memory is adios. Not the same problem you have.

 

Ok onward some more. Wevsspot did an awesome job relating what he said about dis-charged circuits and made it simple enough for even this old MS red-nake to bite off. The other side of that coin is what I said to you to begin with in only a few sentences not this long-winded thing I write now. Pull the 7900 video card out and the problem will likely dissappear. It (the video card) is likely too great a draw on the power supply at cold boot in an uncharged state to boot well. It (the video card) is likely just about "too much" current draw for a 520watt ADJ power supply and the system is saying so by giving you the booting symptoms you see. About the only way it can tell you unless some other compontent fails or weakens some more and gives you an 'emphatic' not workeee at all.

 

Then go for the rest of the gusto. Why you think OCZ come with their 600 and 700 watt gamer extreme power supplies? Huh? Got it. Yep, they had to do so to keep up with the boards and video cards that hunger for power and knock the weaker supplies to their knees with oddities of boot and strange symptoms while in use.

 

I read in a thread the other day that the 7900 card is expected to get 31amps to be able to run. Now that was actually 31 amps 12V rail between the board and the video card I do hope. And marginally the board itself is needing 26amps worth of 12Volt rail. Now we got a video card that has moved the entire 12volt rail demand far out of reach of most 520watt power supplies. You just get all the odds and specs and margin within the specs all stacked to your disadvantage.

 

So now what do us getting older geeksters do when we are where we are. Me I bought a 700watt Ocz Gamer Xstreme power supply when even my Ocz 600 watt ADJ power supply would not start my Expert mobos. Oh yes some of the 600watt OCZ ADJ worked but many did not and since it was going to be a no win situation to beat my head up any further; I went for more power and deeyam glad of it since that same power supply is now pushing a really power hungry Cornrow mobo to let me get in some deeyam good benches in Crossfire. It does not lay down when pushed.

 

Now for the final chapter in any story like this. Don't like our answers? Then rma the board and thus remove the board from the equation. You get another board the tolerances might be stacked better in your favor. Maybe not. But the board will for sure be different. You get the same problems then you can do what his old MS red-nake geekster did and get some more reliable power. End of essay. And back to the normal silence of the later RGone...:confused:

[wevsspot]

RGone waxes eloquently I love it when you're posts are more than two sentences long!

 

Anyway OG, to further reinforce RGone's experience with his 700W GameXstream, I purchased that unit about the same day they became available. HG had in his prized possession one of the first units and he was just slobbering all over it. In fact I asked him this direct question "AG, if you had to purchase this power supply with your own money would you do it?". His answer was fast and it was direct. "In a heartbeat". That was a tough day for me, staring at my lovely, loyal and reliable chrome plated OCZ 520W Powerstream that I was about to sell here at the Street for a price that brought tears to my eyes. But I did. When I got the new GameXstream unit I picked it up and thought, man this thing is small and no-where near as heavy as my Powerstream, I'm gonna be real dissappointed. I can tell you here several months later that the OCZ 700W GameXstream is the finest power supply I've ever owned, even over-shadowing my once hallowed Powerstream. Give one a try, you won't be dissappointed. You'll get a fair price for your 520W here at the Street or you could keep it for backup.

 

p.s. RGone, thanks for the compliment. That however will not keep my beloved Razorbacks from stomping the sheeaat out of both those Mississippi football teams this year though

[old_geekster]

Hey, RGone,

 

I want to thank you for the great post. It couldn't have been put any better.

 

I turned 61 in July, so I always figured 60 yoa was the magic age to become an old_geekster. I have 9 grandkids. Also, I knew that the majority of members on this site would be the age of my kids or grandkids. As it turns out, I haven't found anybody older -- even you.

 

I have been using computers since 1984, but like you, had to find time for them. I was in mid-management of a national railroad. This took a bunch of my time. After retiring at age 50, I decided to really get into computers, or at least learn as much as I can about 'em. Last year, I decided to build my first ever super gaming rig. I got tired of paying more and getting less.

 

So, I was up on software, but really didn't know the hardware side of computing very well. I began searching the web for answers and came upon dfi-street. This is when my obsession with their boards began. I knew of the possible problems that could occur, but knew I was a patient man and would persist in getting it correct. The one thing I didn't anticipate was the "cold boot" issue.

 

I researched for 5 months before putting any pencil to the paper, so to speak, before ordering my components. I didn't go into this thing blind. My first choice originally was an ASUS board because that is what I always had in the past.

 

As I said in the post, I believe that I have the problem solved; at least for the now. After communicating with with RyderOCZ at "Bleedingedge", I found that I should be leaving my PSU switch in the "ON" position at all times. This has definitely made a major difference. My computer has "cold booted" for the past 12 days in a row OC'd to 2.6 (1.37v). This would have never been the case when I was turning it off at night.

 

The sig that you see was put together at the urging of members on dfi-street. So, when I picked the PSU I believed that it would be fine. In fact, in the guide, the Powerstream 520W was listed as the best all-around PSU available. I guess that is the penalty that I pay for buying new technology (7900GTX) that has no past performance records. I would have definitely bought a GamerXStream 700W if it had been available.

 

I guess I could RMA my PSU as suggested by many, but I want to wait to see what happens. I did RMA my memory because it had many errors in on stick.

 

I am new enough at this building thing that I am a bit intimidated by the thought of undoing my build.

 

We'll just have to see what happens.

 

I tried to send this as a PM, but your mailbox was full.

[RGone]

Hehehehe. There are those that come in here in their late late 60's and some in the 70's for sure.

 

I would not even bother rma'ing a 520 watt ADJ supply since it is likely only just stressed from the load and does not have any real issue.

 

Ok I don't do PM's at all. They are a time waster due the coding needed to get thru with certain things done easier by email. If you need to mail me use this...

Click here to email me

 

Taking apart and putting back is not any different than building to start with and sitting on an issue is what causes most of the distress in these forums. The DFI NF4 boards are now some 20 months out and there will be no new things to come regarding them. Nvidia is hard focused on the NF5 type stuff and that will be that am pretty sure. Luck to you man.

 

RGone...:confused: always...

[bosatsu]

I think I have a similar issue and a couple of questions. Should I change my BIOS (740 bt2?) and is my video card also causing a problem (needing too much power)?

 

A little more about my problem. Like you (old_geekster) I can't turn off the rocker(?) switch on the PS overnight or for an extended amount of time without encountering the cold boot issue. Like you if I leave it on it boots up fine. I had the default settings on as well as OC'ed settings and neither worked. I tried something weird and am not sure if it is the actual reason anything worked. During the cold boot problems I hold down the AC input voltage switch (115V) and my PC turns right on, no more problems. Could someone explain why that would work?

[red930]

During the cold boot problems I hold down the AC input voltage switch (115V) and my PC turns right on, no more problems. Could someone explain why that would work?

One of the issues related to the "cold boot" issue has to do with "switch bounce" in the PSU circuit.

 

The short and sweet answer is that by holding down the power button for a second or more, you're keeping the circuit inside the PSU connected long enough to eliminate the "switch bounce".

[-CsA-TAZ]

One of the issues related to the "cold boot" issue has to do with "switch bounce" in the PSU circuit.

 

The short and sweet answer is that by holding down the power button for a second or more, you're keeping the circuit inside the PSU connected long enough to eliminate the "switch bounce".

 

 

Hmm, I have read this thread from start to finish with great interest, as I was not sure what a cold boot was and I am having what I thought was a cold boot issue, only I have not mentioned it before as it could be my fault, I changed my Mobo over from another NF4 Mobo and have not done a fresh install of window and there fore cant eliminate it from my problem, My problem is that sometimes when I switch on the power button @ the front of the case, the PSU is always left on btw, every thing seems to power up the fans spin and I wait and nothing happens, I have to hit the reset button and it then boots fine, I cant see inside my case to see the diagnostics light are doing and as I have said, I think its because I have not done a fresh install of XP as im waiting for some new HD’s so I can go raid, and wanted to wait rather than do it twice, anyway apart from that my pc has been ok! Learn something new everyday, DFI all the way!