The HUGE BIG-BIG Windows Vista Thread

[fscussel]

yes, have just finished setting it up. Had to use "optimized defaults" to make the install and then I have just loaded the overclocked config and it works flawlessly... so probably the install program have some sort of high inteliggency overclock detection mechanism, very stupid to be true. Anyways, I didnt like it, take a year to find anything in there, very different from windows XP but with no substancial advantages that would justify those changes...

[ReelFiles]

[soundx98]

Some thoughts from a post at another forum

 

Question: "On the newer build (5472) would I need to hit F8 every boot to load unsigned drivers (MBM5, Core Temp, Matrix Orbital Display, Slysoft, etc to name a few)?

 

yes, every time you reboot :crap: and the option to load unsigned drivers will be removed completely as the builds get closer to the final version :thmbdn:

 

Another lead projectile podiatric modication by M$

 

i feel that vista x64 is pushing out the "home brew" software crowd by requiring signed drivers

 

And of course almost ALL Overclocking software is in this category

 

how many individuals or small programming teams are going to be able to afford to pay to have their drivers signed...

 

I would doubt that any could afford to

 

unless work-arounds or a way to enable the option to allow unsigned drivers is found (although doing so would bypass Microsofts intentions for security and reliability) in the final version, if anything i would think that these people would just not bother trying to support vista 64 and instead concentrate on vista 32 since that will not require signed drivers (even tho it's likely to be the more used of the two versions)

 

So the 32-bit version that the masses will use (and could probably take advantage of the signed drivers only) will allow unsigned drivers. And the more advanced users with 64-bit get a "crippled" version for OverClocking. Since M$ has stated that Vista is the last 32-bit OS, I guess a lot of companies (and only big ones with a lot of money) will be contributing to the M$ coffers to insure "signed drivers" for their product.

 

it may seem a bit insignificant to some, but IMO, to others, this could be one reason why some people will still delay the switch to 64bit

 

I'm really glad you pointed this out as it will save me a great deal of time formatting and installing new Vista x64 builds.

Since I prefer to incorporate these "unsigned drivers" into my system (in fact I depend on MBM5 and Matrix Orbital drivers for thermal control and information display) my interest in Vista x64 has dropped from highly interested to somewhat less than luke warm. My hope that a hacked x64 Edition driver will work on Vista x64 Final is also diminished. And vice versa, our webcams, printers, and TV Tuner cards may never work properly in any 64-bit OS.

Not kewl Redmond, Not kewl at all.

[ReelFiles]

Vista upgrade path gets a little muddy

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2006Aug/...60801037751.htm

 

 

"...Microsoft has been kind enough to release the potential upgrade paths for existing Windows users once Vista is released. If you have just recovered from the news a while back that Vista will come in 6 different versions (see our coverage, prepare to start feeling a bit confused again.

 

The simplest rule to grasp is that users running any version of Windows prior to 2000 or XP have no upgrade path and will have to pay for the full operating system. After that things get a bit tricky, as there are two options: either an in-place upgrade or a clean install. In-place upgrades mean that Vista can be installed and you retain all the files and apps from your previous Windows installation. Clean installs, on the other hand, mean you need a formatted hard drive or an available partition.

 

The confusing bit comes from the upgrade path if you want to keep your existing files and apps. For example, if you currently run Windows XP Home you can happily upgrade to Vista Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, or Ultimate. However, if you run Windows XP Pro you cannot keep your old files and apps if you want to get Home or Home Premium, so you are forced to do a clean install or get at least Vista Business edition. The same is also true if you run Windows XP Tablet PC, while Windows XP Pro x64 and Windows 2000 users must do a clean install regardless of what version of Vista they choose.

 

Finally, for some strange reason users of Windows XP Media Center edition cannot do an in-place upgrade to Home Basic or Business editions, but they can get with Home Premium and Ultimate..."

 

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Microsoft ships "Vista Industrial Design Toolkit" to PC manufacturers

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060731-7391.html

 

"With the launch of Windows 95, Microsoft pulled out all the stops. An elaborate launch was held, with celebrity appearances, a Rolling Stones theme song, and more press coverage than the industry had ever seen. Windows 95 featured a theme of white fluffy clouds on a blue sky background, which was reflected in not only the box cover but the default background picture for the desktop. At the time, some industry pundits wondered if this wouldn't become a trend, with subsequent OS releases adopting a new visual theme each time. However, Windows 98 continued with the fluffy clouds theme, and Windows XP went back to a plain-looking box with a variety of scenic landscapes available for desktop wallpaper.

 

Now, Microsoft is preparing for another major launch, with Windows Vista scheduled for public release early next year. This time, things are a little different: not only is Microsoft paying close attention to the visual style of the OS and box art, but now it wants to have some influence in the design of PCs themselves. The company has sent out a Vista Industrial Design Toolkit to at least 70 different PC manufacturers.

 

The toolkit, which is delivered free of charge, contains a whole host of suggestions about how to build a PC that will fit with the look and style of Windows Vista. From color palettes to suggestions about how the power and reset buttons should appear, the kit basically describes Microsoft's vision of what a "Vista PC" should look like. The look features "accelerated curves" and "purposeful contrast," among other qualities. "We want people to fall in love with their PCs, not to simply use them to be productive and successful," reads the enclosed booklet. "We want PCs to be objects of pure desire."

 

Not all OEMs are happy to see this kit. Lenovo, the company that took over IBM's PC manufacturing business, doesn't see how adhering to the design will help their company. "Our ability to differentiate ourselves comes from our industry-leading innovation," a Lenovo spokesperson told Businessweek. "And design is a big part of that."

 

Microsoft, for their part, insists that adoption of the kit is completely optional, and is merely offered as a suggestion to help boost PC sales once Vista is released. Some smaller OEMs may indeed find the information useful and allow them to add a bullet point to their marketing brochures.

 

This isn't the first time Microsoft has desired to have some influence over the PC hardware standard. With the release of Windows 95, the company pushed for the inclusion of a "Windows key" as part of the new PC keyboard standard—a suggestion that most OEMs, with the notable exception of IBM, quickly adopted. And of course, there were the "Designed for Windows 95/98/XP" stickers that managed to find their way to so many pieces of hardware. However, this is the first serious attempt that Microsoft has taken to try to directly influence the way PC manufacturers design their hardware.

 

The approach immediately brings to mind comparisons with Apple, who in recent years have taken great pains to synchronize the look of their operating system with their hardware—think of the pinstripes on older Apple flatscreen monitors, or the "brushed metal" features of OS X components paired with the aluminum G5. However, it's too simplistic to say that Microsoft is simply trying to emulate Apple. The two companies operate in different markets and have different goals. Microsoft has no intention of limiting its operating system to its own hardware, whereas Apple is quite insistent on doing just that.

 

Still, for most people the operating system and the computer are one and the same, and so it's somewhat natural that Microsoft would want to try and make the two fit together visually. Will their efforts be successful? One possible roadblock is the fact that industrial design costs money, and the growth markets for personal computers are in the very low end of the spectrum, where every penny shaved off the unit counts. Still, high-end niche companies like Alienware and Falcon show that there is a market for people willing to spend more for a fancy design, and small "screwdriver shop" OEMs routinely show off the latest in crazy cases. If the major OEMs don't go for the Vista look, perhaps some of the smaller ones will."

 

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Vista's Voice Recognition Stammers

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,126613;c...on/article.html

 

"Glitches Amuse Analysts

An interactive voice response (IVR) system in Vista that is supposed to allow a user to dictate text into a Microsoft Word document did not work as expected at the event last Thursday. It failed to correctly recognize what the Microsoft team member was saying on several occasions, the results inspiring laughter from the crowd of analysts and journalists attending the day-long meeting.

 

When the Microsoft employee told the software to type, "Dear mom," it typed "Dear aunt" instead. When he told the software to "fix aunt," it typed "let's set" instead, and then failed to respond to several prompts of "delete that" in an effort to fix the error. The software experienced several other glitches before the demonstration ended.

 

Matt Rosoff, an analyst with Kirkland, Washington, research firm Directions on Microsoft, said he was "surprised" Microsoft would demonstrate the IVR feature of Vista there.

 

"It's not something they made a big deal about, and not something we're following as a big reason to upgrade to Vista," he said. "If it had worked perfectly, it would have been great. Unfortunately, it didn't work out that way."

 

Rosoff said the feature is the result of new voice-recognition application programming interfaces (APIs) Microsoft is building into Vista that will allow users to dictate instead of type content into Office applications such as Word and PowerPoint.

January Still Target

 

Microsoft's public relations firm said Monday that the company would not comment on the failed demo.

 

IVR is just one of a host of enhancements that will be available in Windows Vista, which Microsoft executives said at the briefing is still on track to be available to business customers in November, and consumers in January 2007. However, the company seemed to hint that Vista's release could slip again, as Kevin Johnson, co-president of Microsoft's Platforms & Services Division, said at the meeting that the OS will not ship until "it's ready," even if that means it does not meet the current targets for release."

 

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Black Hat to dissect Windows Vista

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/windows/0...39280292,00.htm

 

"...This year, Black Hat is not just about breaking and entering.

 

The annual security conference traditionally focuses on hunting for bugs and attacking computer systems. At the 2006 event this week, however, an entire track will be devoted to the security — rather than the insecurity — of Windows Vista and Internet Explorer 7. The series of sessions will be hosted by Microsoft, a major sponsor of the event this year.

 

It's an unprecedented and comprehensive first-look at the security in Vista and its associated Web browser, Black Hat director Jeff Moss said in an interview on Monday. "Even if attendees are not getting three different ways to hack into IE 7, they get the back story," he said.

 

Microsoft says it is the first in the history of Black Hat Briefings to present an entire track on a prerelease product. It has talked up Vista as its most secure operating system ever, and has said that security was the No. 1 investment in IE 7.

 

It's a sign of development at the event, which brings together the hacker and corporate worlds for two days of talks in Las Vegas. The tenth Black Hat promises to be special, Moss said. "It is the largest show ever in terms of size and attendees," he said. Moss sold rights to the conference to technology publisher CMP Media in November, but he still runs the event..."

[ReelFiles]

Some thoughts from a post at another forum...

 

Good insight.

[KimTjik]

...Microsoft has been kind enough to release the potential upgrade paths for existing Windows users once Vista is released.

Just what I thought: it's all about kindness!

 

Thank you ReelFiles, that made my hectic day a bit more fun, especially when I read the following text. Either the writer belong to the fan-club or he's getting well payed, because Vista would have a terrible struggle to become a main-stream OS without any upgrade path.

 

Not to criticize MS, but seriously how would you ReelFiles or Soundx98 convince me to choose Vista under the following premises:

- I'm not interested in Directx 10

- I'm capable enough to not be concerned about eventually better security in Vista

 

You've been testing Vista for quite some time now, so I think the question is appropriate.

[ReelFiles]

I wouldn't try to convince you. XP SP2 is a rock solid OS, and until official MS support ceases I wouldn't recommend upgrading, to anyone with the same concerns as you. At least not until Vista has been mainstream for some time and has reached the stability, compatibility and support level of XP SP2.

[ReelFiles]

http://www.informationweek.com/software/sh...cleID=191600952

 

"Microsoft made one big, wrong decision that led to Vista's delays, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer told financial analysts during his meeting with them last week. The company took a Big Bang approach and tried to overhaul all of its operating system's core components simultaneously, an approach that eventually led to a fiery development crash.

 

"We made an upfront decision that was, I'll say, incredibly strategic and brilliant and wise -- and was not implementable," Ballmer said. "We tried to incubate too many new innovations and integrate them simultaneously, as opposed to letting them bake and then integrating them, which is essentially where we wound up." ..."

[Redbeaver]

Deep Burner. Pro version (cost about $30) lets u burn movies n stuff.... Free version is, well, free, and it lets u burn data n images... or somethin like that....

 

either way, u can download both from deepburner.com, and the pro will function 100% for 30 days...

 

why do i mention this? i have 2 version of Nero (i bought one, another came with a dvd burner), and both doesnt work in vista... the new 7 ultimate wont even install, even if i set it to work compatible to winXP2, it gives dll error. the older one works, but it cant burn images nor dvd movies....

 

so a little browsing led me to deepburner. works 100% with vista beta 2.

 

thought anybody might be interested.......

[ReelFiles]

Good info;

For the few with build 5472;

Nero 7082 works fine for me, I tried Nero Recode, Nerovision and Nero burning ROM, all worked flawless.

[Redbeaver]

5472 here too....

 

I have an older Nero (7.0.something) that will install, but theres an SCSI .dll error when i tried to burn movie dvd or iso images (data works fine),

 

i also have newer Nero 7.2.* or 7.3.* Ultimate, and it wont even isntalls... it immediately boots "nero doesnt work wit this OS" or sometin like that. i could run it under WinXP SP2 compatibility but in the middle of the installation, i got a SCSI .dll error (cant say its the exact files)

 

it mightve been my old Pioneer 8x burner, got old firmware or somethin...

 

but DeepBurner works fine (i never really need Nero's many features anyway)

[Guest Kobalt]

I think MS is shooting themselves in the foot again. The 'upgrade' to Vista can't be done from XP PRO, looking at the upgrade chart. Yet they allow this for XP home users.

 

I don't know about you guys, but I have a ton of cd keys/serials/whatever on this system, and I am NOT looking to install everything again, and try to find all those damn keys/serials to install stuff on vista. So what would be the point to upgrade?

 

If I want a fancy GUI, than hell, just boot up linux, and use XGL, and you can play around with windows that 'wobble' when you move them, along with tons of other stuff.