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New DFI Lanparty UT NF590 SLI-MR2/G

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*sigh* I will have to start from the beginning

 

The idea' date=' to wacked out though, man I wish though...

Is to extend the board.[/quote']

Uhh.... Are you saying you want DFI to make up an entire new motherboard specification? The only thing that comes to mind that is even remotely close is eATX and that is usually found in servers. I dunno about you but I would rather not have to lug around some 3-4U monster that weighs 90+ Lbs.

 

Make it so the chipsets are'nt behind the slots.

Make 4x 16x pci-e slots.

Not just 16x' date=' 8x 1x, etc etc, I don't get that.

At least 4, because think if it, 4x gpu's.

Then you got sata raid card in pci-e, most only in pci-e these days.[/quote']

Do you happen to know what kind of work would be involved behind that?!?

There are only electrical connections for 46 PCI-E lanes... not 64. That number is defined by the chipsets architecture. As of right now I do not think there is a chipset that currently will alow for 4 physical and electrical 16x connections. I mean sure you could still house the existing lanes in 16x plastic slots but that takes up valuable space on the motherboard.

 

PCI-e shoudl of been compatible with pci....

Then either we could plug in pci cards' date=' or have slots next to the pci-e slots like how isa and pci went together.[/quote']

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't PCI a parallel bus while PCI-E is a serial pont to point interface? Apart from the physical connectors being different, the electrical connections are entirely different. PCI was extremely limited bandwidth wise (one shared 133MB/s bus) where as each lane in PCI-E has 250MB/s in each direction. So in other words, go talk to the people who created the standard and get back to us when you convince them to redo the whole thing. :rolleyes:

The only reason you could pull off the ISA, PCI thing was because the PCBs were orientated differently. ISA with components on top, and PCI with the components on the underside.

 

We need 6-7 pci slots...

Room' date=' pick and chose resource by slot.

And the ability to upgrade somehting lol, you can add maybe 1 pci card to those boards, maybe 2.

That's just not cool.

 

This would make the baord a bit bigger then the standered, but maybe the standered should be re-thaught hmm?

This also makes room to put both seial ports back on(who cares though about those).[/quote']

The nVidia 590 SLI MCP already has the ability to support 5 PCI slots, and from the looks of things there will probably be 3 on the new DFI boards. I dunno about you but that is quite the accomplishment in my book when most companies are only offering 1-2 PCI slots. And PCI is an aging tech, you will basically have to stick with the older equipment if you want to keep on using your older cards. If you want to keep up with the newest then you need to expect to have the old stuff eventually left behind. The only other alternatives I see are that you do some case modding and throw in a ribbon cable PCI riser and then use a splitter that is usually sold for servers or the mini-ITX motherboards. That or you go track down one of those HUGE external PCI card enclosures and run that big cable back to your computer (sorry I can't remember their official name but I have seen them before.

 

And again with the whole creating a new motherboard specification thing, in order for anything like that to happen you would have to convince pretty much the entire industry that it was needed. And it may just be me but the current trend I am seeing is that people want smaller computers, not larger.

 

Makes room to put the lpt port back on.

Some hate the lpt port' date=' some NEED it.[/quote']

I already fought this battle and lost. In the end I came to realize that I must let go of some older tech to make room for the new technologies and features. So if you want to have your old parallel port you will just have to go buy a PCI card. Heck you can even get all the serial ports you want while you are at it. They are cramming more and more legacy ports onto those PCI cards these days.

 

For example if I got the board' date=' I'd have to buy a lpt port card.

Now that fills up one pci slot.

Now if I were to buy an audio card, then that sorta screws me over if I wanna add a modem or any kind.

Stuff like that.

What if I wanted to add a pci video card, for temp use, or to have as an addon for certain tasks?

Or rom pregramming card?

Disgnostic card?

Lol, hd controller card?

[/quote']

Looks like you will just have to make do with what is available. For example there are USB modems. So just use one of those, there ya go, that is one less PCI card you have to worry about. I can see why you would want to use a PCI video card, but you could also achieve whatever you wanted with another PCI-E video card. I picked one up for $50 a few weeks ago and it has worked fine as a temporary fix for some extra monitors. Heck I have even seen USB to VGA devices. Though my guess is that you will only be able to use basic 2D applications on there and even at that it might stutter. I will cover the HDD thing in a bit.

 

All they'de need to do is either make the atx case a few inches wider.

Or make it a few inches taller then the smallest case' date=' so it could fit a full sized board such as that and a psu.

This woudl make room for a few more pci slots at the very min.

They should bring the chipsets up by the cpu and memory, so it's a whole section away from the cards.

If they have to, make the io on the back taller so it can have more things like an lpt, fiber and coax audio in's and outs, full audio analog jacks, game port(who uses this?, I dn but still).

Etc.[/quote']

Yeah..... good luck with convincing the industry that everything needs to be redone so that a few people can have their legacy tech while making motherboards TONS more complex. The reason why the chipsets are down by the slots is because they are electrically connected ;) As it is they are trying to find ways to shorten the length between all the components. Moving everything around as you suggested would be a nightmare for signal strength, not to mention routing the traces.

 

I don't like how they removed the ide ports...

Makes it nessesary to have more pci cards from the get go.

Well then go whine to the companies who designed the chipsets. They were the ones who decided to drop the support for that. Heck Intel's new chipset doesn't even have one IDE port on it' date=' motherboard manufacturers had to use a 3rd party chip to put on an IDE channel. If DFI really wanted to they could do the same thing. But with as many SATA channels available as there are I really don't see a problem.

 

Sorry about my ranting.

I'd just like to see a good "looking" nf4/nf5? board show up someday.

It'll probably never happen, so it means I need another rig just to do normal things, that nf4/nf5 stle is only good for certain purposes, like a single use sort of thing.

You would'nt even beable to get on the internet(dialup, or other, like pci cable or dsl) with it if you added a lpt, ide and pci vga card.

You are correct in your assumption that it will probably never happen. This is because you want the new and the old to coexist and you want the entire industry to change to fit those needs. And you can achieve most of those things you wanted. They make a USB device for almost everything under the sun these days (I have even seen a USB powered shaver). In your case you could use, USB Modem, USB to VGA adapter, USB to IDE (no I am not talking about an external HDD enclosure but those would work too). Alternatively you could just get another video card and throw it into the other PCI-E slots. Heck over at Computex HIS is showing off a video card that uses a PCI-E 1x slot. So not only does this have more bandwidth available than the entire PCI bus, it lets you keep one of your coveted PCI slots for something else.

 

A baord like is garbage to alot of people.

You can't do that much with it.

I'd like' date=' but I'd only beable to do a small amount of things with it.

They keep taking stuff off the board that people still need absolute.

Plus only a small amount of pci slots, small pci-e slots instead of all 16x.[/quote']

People can do everything you want with these boards, you just can't do what you want. There are ways you can get this board to do what you want, but you are asking for so much more. I already covered just about everything here up above.

 

Anyways do you really think some of this stuff is to hard to ask for though?

 

Header on the mobo for lpt.

People that hate it and want to see it gone' date=' well they won't have to hook it up.

Others that want to use it, in some way with a newer pc, can.

There's allways old pc's too, but there is still uses for the lpt on a new pc.[/quote']

Actually I do think it is a bit much to ask for that. After having designed and built several small compact electrical circuits, I can tell you that it is a nightmare trying to place that many components on there and then route all of those traces through a PCB while retaining signal strength.

 

As much as I would like to see an LPT header on there I now realize that it is probably not going to happen. I argued this topic to death and lost. We will just have to make do with the PCI cards.

 

Ide ports.

Say you got a dvd+rw' date=' a cd+rw, and a bd+rw.

Maybe even another drive such as a combo dvd-rom and cd+rw, it all depends on what they can do for you.

Mabye even a cd-r.

Adding all of these is a bit far fetched, but some of them I can see.

The rest, there's allways a side deck waiting :).

 

There's also that nv ide though, and it is a waste to let it go untappped.

Some hd's, some burner's, whatever.

I mean, there's so many [email protected] sata ports on the board, it's unfair for ide to only have one port ^^.

There's some people out there that hate sata btw.

I know you can't accomadate to veryone, but they could at least throw in the 4 ide ports like the norm.

It does'nt take up much space :.[/quote']

In order for there to be more IDE channels on these motherboards DFI would have to use a 3rd party controller to add the extra channels. And that would take up more valuable space on the motherboard. Sorry to burst your bubble but it isn't the norm to have 2 channels (support for 4 devices) on these boards. The nVidia 5xx series of chipset only has support for one IDE channel. Heck Intel's new chipset doesn't even have one IDE channel on it!

 

A 2nd bios chip socket and bios chip...

This would save lots of money on rmas.

You see it all ther time here' date=' forked over bios'es and they rma it of all things instead of getting a new chip.

It would save the majority of poeple's bad experiences n that area money and alot of time.

And once more peopel got used to the idea, they woud'nt want to be without that ability, it's just not safe not to have a 2nd chip handy.

It also saves us, I think it was around $30 because we don't need to buy a bios savior(I don't have one myself, and it ticks me off when I have to swap chips).

A bios chip doe'snt cost much, I doubt a socket does either.

For every board shipped with a 2nd bios, they would save at least that mount from not getting it back in an rma.

For example, shipping, phone time or email time, repair time, etc.[/quote']

Now a 2nd BIOS would be nice, but remember DFI boards are not for the inexperience nor the faint of heart. When I bought my board I was expecting it to have some issues from the get go and to be very picky about what it needed to work. I was also expecting it to be a solid overclocker that would be very stable after it was properly configured. I must say that my expectations were not let down (props to DFI for a crazy board). Don't forget that a 2nd socket would require even more space and more electrical connections and thus complicate thigns further.

 

As fr the heatsink thing.

I know it sounds liek IO'm ranting on with this one here.

But...

Think about it' date=' say it does cost them $10 for 2 copper heatsinks at the most(not).

Well, that mobo may cost you the consumer $200.

What's $10 for a much much higher quality heatsink?

One that if from some very strange reason you want to replace(shame on you really, for sure), you would actually have use for them for other things.

Like other boards lol, decent copper heatsinks I bet would stay on the board ^^.[/quote']

You may want to rethink your math on the whole cost thing. Lets say that they do cost $10 for the 2 heatsinks. While the motherboards may cost the consumer $200, DFI is not getting the $200 of that sale. Remember DFI has to pay for R&D as well as the manufacturing of the board. Then they sell it to the retailers, they then mark the boards up lets say 80% and then sell the board to the consumer for $200. That means DFI gets ~$111 to pay for R&D and the cost of the board not to mention the costs of manufacturing (don't forget your $10 heatsinks). My guess is that in all reality the margins are even smaller.

 

That it it would not be killing fans.

Fans get killed by heat' date=' when there right on top of it.

The only way to cool something like that is to have a bigger fan away from it, say from the side of the case blowing in at it/them.

That's something the user provides, because with a good heatsink, it's not needed for decent clocks on a chipset.[/quote']

Gabachaoofalaoffica? :confused:

 

I eman come on' date=' look at the one with the fan.

That's probably the same exact on the nf4's.

that truly is one of the worst heatsink fan combos I've ever seen.

It's no doubt it would not last very long, nor cool for shiz.

 

Even a decent aluminum one witout a fan would cool much better then that.

Any decent heatsink.

Decent heatsinks are something that if you take them off, you actually keep them for future use ^^.[/quote']

I dunno what you are on but those are probably come of the best HSFs that ship with motherboards. Sure a heatpipe looks pretty but most of the boards using those to cool off the chipsets also rely on airflow from the CPU fan to dissipate the heat. With DFI being an enthusiast board I don't see the point in doing that since many users watercool their CPUs. That means no airflow from a nonexistent CPU fan, which in turn would result in the chipset overheating.

 

You'de do the same probably' date=' I wold, with the nf4's heatsink, I would just throw it in the gabage, it's not worth squat.[/quote']

Again I dunno what you are talking about as the HSF on the nForce 4 chipsets is amazingly good for being stock.

 

It's just the small thigns like ide' date=' lpt ports.

Stuff like that.

That and we really do need more pci slots, I see 3 on some of the mobo's.

4-5 is a good #.

It must be doable somehow without screwing something else up.

 

I know it's to late to change any mobo coming out int he near future, not like they would change a few things like that.

However in the future, I think it should be considered.[/quote']

I have already covered this and have provided you with multiple solutions, so please just read above. And short of some super strange turn of events you will see IDE and PCI entirely dissappear from motherboards just like the parallel ports are dissappearing right now.

 

For instance in the future I may consider moving on to diff types of hardware too.

Like sata.

However I wil have use for lpt for a long time' date=' I dont ever see it going away right now, perhaps in teh future when everything it can do, is moved on to a diff piece of hardware such as usb, but that time has not come.

Serial is the same way, however the things you tend to do with that still, you use an older pc for anyways with no hd's.

 

I still have a use for ide though, even if I do move most, or eventually all my hd's over to sata.

I still have these burners, and I plan on getting more ide burners in the future.

These will never become useless until all roms are backed up.

With bd and hd stuff coming out I don't see this coming to an end soon either.[/quote']

Just go buy a PCI card, here you go. There that is a PCI card that has 4 serial ports and a parallel port on it. as far as the IDE ports go, buy some SATA to IDE converters. There are also external enclosures that you can throw your precious optical drives into.

 

Blah I went on to much with this' date=' anyways these are my opinions yo :).

I just hope evetually we can get a bigger board going for the at64's.

Maybe even a new style, instead of atx, something else.

I don't remember how btx went though, but maybe amd should move on, we're out of room in the standered cases here.[/quote']

As I said earlier, good luck with getting the entire industry to change just because you want to use the old tech. There are alternate solutions that will allow you to achieve everything you want, you just need to look for them. There is no need to make an entirely new motherboard specification just to cram more old stuff on.

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I know, its just that I always knew what a DFI LP motherboard stand for: Overclock.

 

Like I said I have used MSI, Abit, Asus and Gigabyte socket 939 motherboards, some of them were nF3 Ultra while others were nF4... and all of them had two things in common: they were pretty bad overclockers, and they all shared a very good stability, the Gigabyte and Asus being the more stable IMO.

 

I have three computers: one with an old Abit NF7-S and a Mobile 2600+ @ 2.2 ghz (can run 2.4 ghz with out a blink, but I want to save electricity :D), a MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum with a 3500+ 130nm AMD64 at stock 2.2 ghz (this motherboard sucks in overclocking), and the DFI monster you see in my signature. Do I need stability from my DFI motherboard, sure... but what I really need is max performance, I think we all want that :)

 

Asus changed his policy of NO OVERCLOCKING when they build the A8N SLI 32x, but I am not sure about it yet. For me Asus is still a non overclocking brand, and certain bugs I have read about that board prove they are just too green to really compit with DFI in overclocking power. I really hope Asus come back into the game, this means DFI will be on the look for a competitor and thus this means DFI will probably keep their line of production focused in maximum overclock like they have been doing for the past two years.

 

I think we are just having a discussion about wanting more or keeping what we have... diferent opinions about the same thing, and as such believe me I didn't get you wrong, its just that it is really dificult to put thoughts in writting... specially since ME NO ENGLISH!!!! :D

 

Cheers

 

 

Btw, check all of the nF4 SLI and nF4 SLI 16x motherboards from all brands, and they all share a similar design. This is because the chipset requires certain architecture, and as such some things can't be changed... but some others can. I believe thats why there is the ATI XFire chipset, so we have to really good options :)

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I think we are just having a discussion about wanting more or keeping what we have...

 

Indeed, and it needs to stop....

 

Come on, a lot of people have started thread after thread on new DFI motherboards, and we keep deleting them, time and time again. Travis is being nice enough to allow it this time since there IS a lot of hype about AM2 and Conroe, and we just don't want to have to keep PM'ing half the members of DFI-Street to stop making threads about it.

 

While you guys are more than welcome to theorize about the 'perfect board', this isn't the place to do it. Start a thread elsewhere, or heck, manufacture the damn thing yourselves.

 

You're welcome to comment on how you like or dislike something about the new design, that what it's here for. But to take it further than that is unnecessary. And try to keep it civil...theres no reason to argue.

 

Angry_Games was nice enough to allow this thread to be put here, and he can take it away just as easily.

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I did'nt know that the newer nv chips only supported on ide port.

Btw, I meant ports lol, as in a channel, I dn how I would of got that mixed up as in needing more then 2 standered or something.

Dl'ing so I can go back and read it real quick like ;). (Edit.... ,meant can't lol)

 

If I would of know I would of just said, that sucks :( .

 

 

The heatsink thingy.

When you put a fan on top of a heat src, it kills the fan quickly.

Some fasteer then others.

A fan setup like that is likely to die very quickly.

 

That heatsink.

It does look like it really sucks.

It looks like a plate with fins around it, those suck.

I heard they are ok, those types, that they do work decently, but I dn man.

The center of the fan right in the middle of the heat src.

Does'nt look good to me.

 

I'm thinking more or less, a decent heatsink, with say a 120mm fan blowing on it from the side of the case.

If the heatsink is decent, it won't need a fan stock, and it'll oc just fine probably.

 

 

The pci-e and pci thing.

I was hoping if it's possible to fit a pci slot next to a pci-e slot, and have them match the back plates evenly(one or the other), like isa and pci did, then they should try to doit.

If they could, they could add as many pci-e slots as they wanted, and still retain all the pci slots.

I dn how pci-e slots match up though, but I was just saying it if they could, it would be nicer.

If not, then I wish for a new pci-e spec lol ;).

 

As for the pci-e 16x slots.

Well if it can't doit, then it can't doit.

I assume now that it can't fit between the pci slots, those small pci-e's.

Otherwise they shoudl be below the big ones where you could actually put something in them if you used the big ones up.

I'm doubting that you could fit anything in them if you had big heatsinks on dual vga.

 

 

PCI modems.

I have reasons not to switch to an external, it's expensive, plus it would probably hard to find one that does 921k baud, and that speed in back to back mode.

 

If I baught an ide controller card, it would have to be a none raid one.

There is no decent ide raid cards.

I would have to find one that does pci-66 spec too.

I like my pci speed high and all.

 

Usb hd's, no thanks.

Usb burners, again no thanks.

I liek benq's usb burner's, but I use mine inside the case hooked directly to the ide controller, I don't even have it as the usb ver anymore because the firmware was to old, now it's a dw-1620.

Later on I'll get a 1640 and check out how it's like as a 164b.

 

 

I was'nt demanding anything, just speaking out loud yo ;).

I'm not the board designer, so I dn what has to be done and etc.

But some small things would make it alot easier to work with the newer boards.

 

Controller drivers for usb, psx just are'nt as good as the usb ones.(Another late edit, meant as good as the lpt ones)

The ok usb ones you have to pay for too.

It's not like I'm gonna use a darn printer on that port ^^.

But I do need that port, without it half my games are unplayable.

Those are the darn games that need more speed, some of which probably play at 40fps at 2.5ghz, some even less, maye even 5fps(It's been quite some time since I've even gotten to play anything though).

The other games, which I use a mouse and kb, I don't even need the speed right now, they all run fast enough mobo and cpu wise.

For now anyways, and it's not like there is'nt more speed at the next platform anyways ;) (I'm on the alpha platform still).

 

LPT, 2nd bios, ide port(can't do I guess), and better lan.

All stuff that would'nt be out of reach.

Just speaking out loud like I said, it does'nt hurt to say it ^^.

Like I said, probaly won't happen, but who's to say the the next maybe lp won't have some extras huh?

 

More bios options don't hurt either ;).

Certainly doable, however as one memory tech progresses to the next, some timeings are removed and etc, I have the ddr2 spec, but I have'nt looked at it.

I'm sure there's a ton of timings that can be put in the bios though.

Along with normal stuff that could be there, but normally are'nt, or never are.

 

 

Anyways I don't care how big the mobo is lol.

It can be twice that big and I would be happy lugging it around ;).

At least I would be proud of it eh?

 

And no I was'nt whining, just nagging on about stuff.

It does'nt matter to me that much.

 

In an case, I belive what I would do is have a 2nd rig setup for certain functions, network into the 2nd rig for all of that, liek dialup when needed.

If I can't say oc the pci bus, then capture to the 2nd rig that can, then transfer to the new main deck to compress(Which would take forever to transfer a 20-30min raw in 30fps to 60fps).

If the cpu's become fast enough, maybe encode in realtime, if I don't get lag from not having a fast bus, I can do xvid allready (Been quite a while since I've tried though, but have been able to doit fine with high quality to boot, once in a while it was'nt fast enough though), but doing avc is another story lol.

 

If 3 decent cards can fit into those pci slots, then maybe, if they are busmastering I think it was 2.2 or 2.3 slots(err 66mhz again..., darn I told you I liek high pci, it's even hard to get that sort of thing out of my mind lol).

 

Oh yeah, the reason for pci video ^^, 2d speed.

That's why lol, just a relic from times past and all.

I have'nt seen a single agp card, a newer one anyways, they could beat it in years so...

That's taking things a bit to far though but still..., that's one reason I want more pci slots lmao...

 

 

:)

He I went and posted a huge post again :, I should of stayed away lol.

I'm ruining it for the people that are waiting for this mobo and all, they wanna see more pics and stuff :D .

Sorry all ;).

 

 

Edit:

I guess I should start looking into sata more serously though, excluding maxtors and deathstars.

Especially if I could only use 2 burners on the newer boards, one at a time of course being it's only one chan(fast I mean, could use both but it would drag each other down...).

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Indeed, and it needs to stop....

Awww :(

 

I like things the way they were... but the question is: was I out of line in the posts you deleted?

 

It was not my intention as I tried my best to both express and avoid a bad tone in those posts... but in the end the Me No English is a battle I can't win... :shake:

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Indeed, and it needs to stop....

 

Come on, a lot of people have started thread after thread on new DFI motherboards, and we keep deleting them, time and time again. Travis is being nice enough to allow it this time since there IS a lot of hype about AM2 and Conroe, and we just don't want to have to keep PM'ing half the members of DFI-Street to stop making threads about it.

 

While you guys are more than welcome to theorize about the 'perfect board', this isn't the place to do it. Start a thread elsewhere, or heck, manufacture the damn thing yourselves.

 

You're welcome to comment on how you like or dislike something about the new design, that what it's here for. But to take it further than that is unnecessary. And try to keep it civil...theres no reason to argue.

 

Angry_Games was nice enough to allow this thread to be put here, and he can take it away just as easily.

 

 

Oh :O, sorry dude ;).

I was posting and dl'ing off a torrent at the same time, went out for a few and such and got dissconnected off the net, all that sort of stuff.

I had no idea you posted to stop or anything, nor what others may of posted before I finshed.

I thaught I was keeping it cival and all, and I did say I was sorry for wasting the good people's time, but we were having a discussion none the less, it's was all good ;).

 

Ohwell I guess, that was my last comment on that anyways, I don't think I had to explain it any more.

You can del it lol, my previous post, it looks totally out of place now lmao.

If not, then leave it to confuse people lol :P:).

 

Edit:

Btw, ludeboy12.

That's is'nt capless dude :D, that's got a ton of caps on it ^^.

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No no, you guys DID keep it civil, just a friendly reminder. :) If it went much further I think it might have started getting a little heated.

 

I just want to keep this as on-topic as possible, so people can see things about the new board without having to sort through a bunch of off-topic stuff. That why I deleted the posts.

 

You made a lot of good points (on both sides), and it might be interesting to start a thread and create a 'theoretical' wish-board. But yeah...not here. ;)

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Yes, sorry about the short novel of a post I made. I just thought I would explain the reason why somethings are the way they are. I enjoy a good discussion with people and NEOAethyr and I seemed to be getting along ok. Sorry if it seemed like it was on the edge of heating up.

 

Anyways, it looks like NEOAethyr may get his wish for the nice copper coolers :)

Bit-Tech swung by DFI at Computex and got some more info about the 590 SLI. I must say it is looking good.

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