Ultra-D and Antec P180 cooling modifications

[arklab]

Wow - great job!

 

Safety Tip

You might just want to consider bolting that thing to the floor before you turn it on.

I'd hate to see that big, heavy case flying around the room! :eek2:

[ripken204]

http://img350.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lowchamber3nt.jpg

i was able to get a 120mm fan in front of my lower hdd bay without having to take out that entire bracket that the bay screws into.. as long as it doesnt vibrate much u must be real happy. that fan lowered my hdd temp over 5C.

 

and i love what u did with that zalman heatsink. i have a 7800gt with an arctic cooler rev5 on it which is huge and its in the second slot. whenever i decide to get an xfi, i dont think ill be able to fit that 7800gt in the lower slot anymore and i dont want to lose my silent heatsink, so great idea.

[Guest LithoTech]

LithoTech, i was looking though your pics, and have a question.. in post#8, pic #1, you have the fans unmbered. i was curious as to how fan #5 sounded and performed since it looks like it is about 1/2 inch away from where the side of the case would be. if it isnt too bad i might try that idea and a VC-RE to cool my chipset down, which currently idles 45c and loads at 55c at stock settings w/ AS5.

 

Mine used to hit 55c too, and now tops out to around 50c. Once I put in a VC-RE as well, hopefully it will stay below 50.

 

As for the fans...

 

Actually, fan 3 is almost an inch closer to the side panel than fan 5. Pictures never do anything justice. :shake: If you look closely, you can see the bracket flares inwards at the end near fan 5, so fan 5 is farther away from the panel.

 

Note: when this system is properly configured, the bracket is bolted to the left side, to the PCI adapter mounting plate screws. The bracket ends up flipping 180 degrees and the whole thing is 2.5 inches deeper within the case, much closer to the action. It has been flipped to the right because the AC Freezer is too tall and blocks it.

 

I know your concern, I had the same. If it is too close, you get horrendous fan noise due to the fan working hard to get air, sucking, horrible.

 

Nope, no extra noise even though I would sware it IS too close (fan 3 that is).

 

There is about 1/4 inch clearance from the fan to the flange that the side panel hooks into, and another 1/4 inch from there to the actual side panel. So total of 1/2 inch, 5/8ths at the most.

 

When I rigged it there, I was nervous, but felt I'll just flip the fan on low speed if it is too close, that should stop it from the vacuuming effect. Since I leave the panel off when overclocking, the fan could go back on high when I really needed the cooling. Failing that, I could disconnect it and only use it when the case was open. As it turns out, there are no problems with the fan on high and the case closed.

 

The system is quite effective, and totally adjustable. The nice thing is none of the fans are wobbly or loose. I was worried about that too, but each fan is sort of touching or wedged against something else as well as bolted to the bracket.

 

Once I get that freezer out of there, I'll get some pics of the system on the left side, which is much better, cleaner look and the fans are wedged even tighter.

 

I've been too busy to get at it lately, and need to run some more ram tests first. A few days, maybe this weekend and I'll have some more pics.

 

At the same time, I'm going to take a very close look at getting a fan in front of the lower HD cage. I have a spare tri-cool from the top that I replaced with an LED one, I'll use that and get it all set up. Might even pull the mobo at the same time and get that cable finally tucked out of sight. Man, that will be one big chore out of the way, the cabling has been a temporary job for far too long!

[Guest LithoTech]

http://img350.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lowchamber3nt.jpg

i was able to get a 120mm fan in front of my lower hdd bay without having to take out that entire bracket that the bay screws into.. as long as it doesnt vibrate much u must be real happy. that fan lowered my hdd temp over 5C.

 

That comment brings back memories of me spending almost an hour trying to squeeze or angle in a 120mm fan in past that assembly. I gave up. How did you manage it?

[snugglealufacus]

yeah i cant get my cables to look good for squat.. i just got them running together up the case in the same place, and then just zipped stripped them, still looks weird, but it is clean. i might try that fan + vc-re on the chipset, wont hurt anything except my wallet . and anther, doe that also cool your GPU down? my gpu idles at 45c and can reach 71c during COD2 or HL2..

[Guest LithoTech]

yeah i cant get my cables to look good for squat.. i just got them running together up the case in the same place, and then just zipped stripped them, still looks weird, but it is clean. i might try that fan + vc-re on the chipset, wont hurt anything except my wallet . and anther, doe that also cool your GPU down? my gpu idles at 45c and can reach 71c during COD2 or HL2..

 

Yup, took a big chunk off my GPU. The airduct wasn't doing much, removing it and putting a 120 there made a big difference.

 

I still hit the 70s with the case closed in games, but not when it's open, tops at 68-69c. I think this card is supposed to be fine to 90c, but the effect on ambient is what bothers me, especially being so close to the chipset.

 

Before this config, it used to hit 80 in games that really worked it.

 

I've been resisting buying an AC X1 for it, because price around here sucks compared to the deal at SVC. I'll hold out a while, betting prices will drop here soon. Reviews sound good on it, would be nice to ditch some easy temp.

[snugglealufacus]

wow AC X1 i have never seen it or even heard of it, looks bad-butt! i might get one and sell my vf-700cu, anyone want one for $15?

[osen]

Sorry for not replying Thanks for the replies!

 

 

LithoTech:

 

The reason why your sink doesn't get warm is probably because you haven't activated the 4V jumper. If you do that (I'm using 3.5V right now) it gets very hot. As I said, I nearly burned my skin off And still, after this modification, it gets around 60C at load.

 

Also, that is a LOT of fans :shake: I am really going for a quiet system myself, and have ordered some Nexxus Real Silent 120mm fans and sound dampening material. Doesn't those fans blowing onto the motherboard/memory destroy the airflow pretty much? It seems to me that they create a lot of turbulence. Nice airflow though :nod:

 

ripken204:

 

How the h*ll did you mount a fan in the front of the lower chamber without removing the bracket? Really want to see that :drool:

 

Chaos_2k:

 

Actually, I attached it with a wooden screw :cool: It grips in between some of the pins on the Zalman sink. I just put it through the upper right hole on the fan and used a screw driver to attach it.

[Scott P]

.

 

Also, that is a LOT of fans :shake: I am really going for a quiet system myself, and have ordered some Nexxus Real Silent 120mm fans and sound dampening material. Doesn't those fans blowing onto the motherboard/memory destroy the airflow pretty much? It seems to me that they create a lot of turbulence. Nice airflow though :nod:

 

 

Update us on how well those work. I looking into those for my case. I'm looking for silence and cooling.

[Guest LithoTech]

wow AC X1 i have never seen it or even heard of it, looks bad-butt! i might get one and sell my vf-700cu, anyone want one for $15?

 

X1 outperforms the VF900-CU under load according to a mag article I saw. And it's silent without the need of a fan adjuster, and way cheaper albiet a lot bigget footprint. I'd had my eye on them since they came out not too long ago.

 

I'd like to upgrade the vid card to a 7900GT, so blowing $40 (cost around here w/ tax) on an X1 would only benefit resale of the 6800GS since I have no other PCI-e system here to pass it down to. Best to save the money and live with what is already 10+ under my old temps.

 

I'd have bought one from SVC except shipping costs more than the cooler does -- local price!

[Guest LithoTech]

LithoTech:

 

The reason why your sink doesn't get warm is probably because you haven't activated the 4V jumper. If you do that (I'm using 3.5V right now) it gets very hot. As I said, I nearly burned my skin off And still, after this modification, it gets around 60C at load.

 

I'm running BH-5 atm, 3.5v, priming a 260mhz setup.

I'll put that thermal sensor back on there the next time I have the fans out of the way, probably later today when I flip the jumper back. I'll update here when I get new data.

 

That is the biggest problem with this setup, the fans block access to the mobo and even though they are easy to remove, it's a pain to have to do it a lot.

 

Also, that is a LOT of fans :shake: I am really going for a quiet system myself, and have ordered some Nexxus Real Silent 120mm fans and sound dampening material. Doesn't those fans blowing onto the motherboard/memory destroy the airflow pretty much? It seems to me that they create a lot of turbulence. Nice airflow though :nod:

 

It's a sickness I tell you! It starts off innocent enough, just one extra fan, a small one. Then you start sneaking them in when the case isn't looking. The next thing you know its controlling your life! :eek2:

 

Low speed low noise 120 fans are still great airflow. Keep one or both of the exhaust as tri-cool for the option of extra speed, the higher flow of exhaust alone can make a huge boost on the flow of the rest. At least that is my theory on it based on my own results, others that I have read, and my understanding of areodynamics, convection and cooling.

 

Basics: an air cooler works off of convection, transfer of heat from one element to another. The cooler connects to the hot chip, sucks heat off it, dissipates the heat through it's own material and surface, and then looses a certain amount of that heat due to air taking it off of the surfaces.

 

The physics of air taking heat off a surface is the same as the surface taking it off the chip. The air comes in contact with the surface, and steals the heat or energy. It is the same thing as wind chill, only we call it wind chill to describe winter sub-zero temps that are dangerous to us. But it is the same thing.

 

Therefore, we must understand two things:

 

1) the larger the surface of the HS cooler, the better it will perform (providing its convection properties are up to snuff). This is why they make them with so many fins, it creates much much more surface area. In the cooling world, surface area rukes as much as convection properties.

 

2) Air convects too, so the more air that passes the surface area of the cooler, the more temperature will be taken away from the cooler.

 

The temperature of the air passing the surface of the cooler has a direct affect on how much temperature it takes away, but we are not as concerned about this as much as its dwell time or how fast it passes the surface. The more air that passes the surface, the more temperature it will take away. Think of each molecule of air being it's own surface. We want lots of molecules passing by because that will take off more temperature than cooler, slower moving air will.

 

In light of this, I'm never too concerned with turbulence!

 

Additionally, any performance cpu HSF is pretty powerful and causes a lot of turbulence on it's own. It is the exhaust that manages the continuation of the airflow in the proper direction.

 

In my case, I've tripled the turbulence, at least, I admit, I have a problem.

 

But I have doubled the exhaust, at least, and when set to high those fans pump out air like crazy. Putting my hand at the back or top of case and feeling the air rushing out is quite satisfying. In fact, it was so good that I ended up putting a low speed quiet coolermaster 120 in the top exhaust because that is the one that can be heard -- they are a lot cheaper than the tri-cool, allowed me to use the tri-cool elsewhere instead of running it on low all the time.

 

For intake, I have the regular front which works fine (one of the stock black 3 speed fans), and an AC 120mm which is quite powerful and extremely quiet, mounted in the 5.25 drive bays.

 

I wish I had a vid camera to demonstrate this, the best way to see airflow in your case, and the worst habit you could possibly think of taking up: lite-up a cigarette and wave it in front of the intake and see how powerful the draw is.

 

The draw from the (currently unfiltered) 5.25 bastard rig is at least double the draw I get from the filtered stock intake. The lower chamber intake is slightly below that. Putting a fan in front of the lower HD tray would make a huge difference here, I can't wait to takle it! Hoping to see a pic of how it was squeezed in!

 

In an case, I have plenty of intake and the case is never starving for air even when the fans are on low and the case is closed -- I'll call this silent mode. Note, the AC intake fan has no speed adjustment other than it kicks into an ultra high speed if one of the thermal sensors passes an alarm setting. Also, when the case is in silent mode, the intake for the AC has all the blank plates inserted etc.

 

Unfortunately, I can't see whats happening to the smoke when in silent mode. But following a good drag of it into the case when it is open showed me nothing more than smoke being blown all to smithereens and blasted away to nothing in a matter of seconds.

 

While the case is open, fans high, it really isn't an issue because there isn't and doesn't need to be an airflow, all fans can draw from outside of the case so to speak. We really are only looking at when the case is closed, in silent mode. It would be interesting to put a web cam inside the case and see if I could get some shots of smoke. I don't smoke inside the house, and don't like the idea of blowing smioke in my case for 45 minutes trying to get the right shot, but it could be interesting and a worthy sacrifice for the . I will get for lighting up inside.

 

So I can only conclude that I am getting plenty air in from the front, passing the mobo, cpu, vid and ram, being blasted in any way it does depending on fan speed at the time, then getting sucked out.

 

If I had some sort of whirlwind effect where air was circulating and not being exhausted, I would be seeing super heating in some areas, especially when compared to an open case. So I am concluding that this is not happening.

 

Playing with the fan speeds in silent mode can greatly affect cooling. In most previous layouts I spent time adjusting front and rear speeds a bit, noting temps and comparing then settling on a basic setting for surfing/folding or gaming/overclocking.

 

Lots of other P180 users find the same thing. For example, iirc: setting the front to low, and one exhaust (rear) to high, and the top exhaust to low or even intake, created a very good performing silent mode because the only high speed fan is the farthest away from the user.

 

Some opt to not run a front fan at all, for systems that aren't overclocked or loaded a lot and the case is exposed like in a livingroom HTPC situation. The exhaust fan alone should be enough to draw intake, a decent AMD system running stock speeds with a good HSF would never break a sweat doing an HTPC load in a P180 configured like this. I'd defy anyone to hear the fans in it with the TV on.

 

ripken204:

 

How the h*ll did you mount a fan in the front of the lower chamber without removing the bracket? Really want to see that :drool:

 

I would very very much like to see this too.

 

Chaos_2k:

 

Actually, I attached it with a wooden screw :cool: It grips in between some of the pins on the Zalman sink. I just put it through the upper right hole on the fan and used a screw driver to attach it.

 

Also good to know! Do you think that zalman with a fan on it outperforms the VC-RE? It probably should, based on the above physics it has much more surface area and a much larger more powerful fan. It may not be copper, but while copper conducts heat well throughout it's surface, it doesn't transfer it to air as well as aluminum. It would be really cool to get some comparisons here.

 

.

[Guest LithoTech]

Forgot to mention about noise.

 

When this case is open, and all the fans on high, it is loud. It sits 24 inches to my right on top of my desk. To some people, it may even be considered very loud. However, I'd say by comparrison to other performance cooling HSF systems this is far from a jet aircraft or hair dryer. If I were to guess at a db, and judging from a 30db 80mm fan, I'd say I was 30-35db.

 

I might be sounding a little conservative here, but consider: my iMac G5 graphics workstation is 12+ feet behind and to my left. I can hear the little fan whine away in it as it folds@home. That is a sinlge 60mm fan, and I can clearly hear it over the 120mm x 6 @ high speed drone not 2 inches from my mouse pad, and thats with the case open.

 

I'm not on a total silent kick, but I do like, no I very much like being able to flip these on low and seal the case up and hear nothing but a slight whisper.

 

I can definately see how others get totally into completely silencing their computers, and if I don't watch out I will end up with that sickness myself! I just hope it isn't as expensive as my Fan habit! :nod: