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OceanSeasforMe

Astounding stuff I saw today

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Well said Nate - USA's total oil consumption is 1/4th of the world. Necessity, luxury, lifestyle habits?? - who knows!

 

@roadie: as far as I know, its called price floor and price ceiling ($0.09 to $0.04) and it is applied to many industries which didnt surprise me to see it in oil, too.

 

There are only 80 oil companies based in 30 countries (if you wanna look at their market cap this number dramatically reduces to <10) for 6.6 billion people and their CIVILIZATION needs.

 

Of course I am going to hammer oil companies cuz I believe that top management in those 10 companies and their political friends are giving direction to planet earth - they are the riders of civilization, huh... The sheep analogy fits rest of us really well. Do I have any better idea - hopefully the new energy sources and development in science will break the cult - probably just change the shape of it but it will be better by time - still an avid fan of back to the future series (way to go doc emmett brown)...

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It's actually called "statutory minimums" since the value is set by law.

 

This is a strictly political move to keep the prices of a commodity high enough so the retailers are allowed to fund political contributions.

 

Other well known statutory minimums are used in dairy products and consumer alcohol products.

@roadie: as far as I know, its called price floor and price ceiling ($0.09 to $0.04) and it is applied to many industries which didnt surprise me to see it in oil, too.

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I am all for any other fuel source, but they have to be a better choice economically for the majority of people to adopt them.

 

The problem with fuel cells is a lack of platinum needed to catalyze the reaction. There is only 1/4 of the platinum needed for a large changeover from commbustion engines to fuel cells (Economics Section).

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Fuel Cells are an interesting alternative.

 

The main drawback is the very high cost of production, low efficiency and limited production life when used at near maximum output. A Proton Exchange Membrane fuel cell tops out at 50% efficiency.

 

They seem to be best suited for high occupant capacity use in urban areas with lots of stop and go traffic as long as they are used with a regenerative braking system. Once you put them in a passenger vehicle that makes suburban trips with an accessory load similar to what most consumers use a vehicle for, their efficiency drops off dramatically.

 

Even Molten-carbonate fuel cells only have a 67% efficiency rating.

 

 

I am all for any other fuel source, but they have to be a better choice economically for the majority of people to adopt them.

 

The problem with fuel cells is a lack of platinum needed to catalyze the reaction. There is only 1/4 of the platinum needed for a large changeover from commbustion engines to fuel cells (Economics Section).

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Sadly in America we made it difficult if not downright illegal to run cars on hemp oil.

 

I do not see it happening in my lifetime. The illegality of hemp en general is one point where the oil and timber lobbyists have won. The result is that they facilitated the denial to the American market a natural (renewable) fuel source. Ask yourself why ? hemp = cellulose and oil products......

 

It was not an engine of such nature as stated above.

I like the ethanol stuff and it’s kind of along those lines.

The engine burns *(most) any fuel efficiently. That’s part of the leap.

*(Most) I’m sure its also applicable to diesel though not currently configured as such. It’s a mechanical concept that few engines have….. and none have this methodology for achieving the result.

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Are we talking about something like a "hot vapor" engine here?

 

It was not an engine of such nature as stated above.

I like the ethanol stuff and it’s kind of along those lines.

The engine burns *(most) any fuel efficiently. That’s part of the leap.

*(Most) I’m sure its also applicable to diesel though not currently configured as such. It’s a mechanical concept that few engines have….. and none have this methodology for achieving the result.

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well perhaps we can continue from here - oil hit over $74.

 

ExR we are getting closer to $90, lol...

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoken Joe

The lower BTU's can be offset by higher octane. ExR has a point about oil refinerys the people that redesign the old ones make some serious bank. The old not in my back yard concept hard at work as usual. Actualy Methanol would be a pretty good idea with very high octane making up for the low BTUs They were used in the indy cars for a wile with very good results and if done in quantity it could be cheap. How are you really going to compete with just sucking someting out of the ground and seperating the best parts for gas and the worst for heating oil. Yes they do change the fule some but not to nearly the extent as the alternate fules. The same not in my back yard concept also makes it hard for any seious enviromental projects too. No one wants to live in the real world.

 

 

 

 

I don't know if I'm reading this correctly, but it sounds like you are trying to violate the laws of thermodynamics. The energy released during a reaction is what it is. It cannot be changed. It is possible to harness more of the energy released during combustion as work through more efficient engines, but not increase the amount of energy released during the combustion.

 

It is not just that the cars would be more effecent extracting energy directly with a high compression fule like methenol or such but that you could have a smaller engine because it could produce more acceleration when the consumer wanted it. It only takes about 14 hp to keep an areaodnamic car moving at 65MPH but eveyone wants that extra 300 HP for passing accelerating or bragging.

 

I do think though that high compression engines convert more of the energy relesed from burning into physical energy. Look at the high effecncy of some desels with there high compression or the massive HP of the indie cars that use methane: Note the car would need to be designed for very high compression not simply converted to make it worth wile and more effecent.

 

 

 

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question202.htm

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine1.htm

 

 

 

(the car would be more effecent because of the higher diffrence in pressures the higher compresson under squich allows that energy to be released to the lower pressure area not under squics- kind of like increasing the timing and the stroke without the frictional loss or extra size..........)

 

 

Just imagine an engine the weaght of one in an economy civic makeing more HP than a corvett and you get the idea.

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Half of Brazil's cars are Hybrid already running on gasoline or "natural gas" which is very economic and non pollutant, in every gas station there you can fill up with either fuel....the cabs run mostly on natural gas since it saves them a s*** load of money...

The driver only has to press a button in the front panel to swicth between each fuel...

the other technology which is even more interesting there is that they released a new type of engine which works on gasoline or ethanol....(ethanol cars have been running in brazil since the early 70's) but this is the first time that they released engines that can run both at the same time, in other words the ethanol and gasoline share the same tank.....it's awesome....if this system were to be implemented in the US alone. (biggest oil consumer in the world) imagine what would happen with the oil companies....

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Here's one for you I saw on a car show ( TOP GEAR) UK Tv.

 

Guy got a diesel car and ran it out untill there was'nt a drip left in it and the thing wouldnt start. the TV presenter was there to debunk him and said " ok ill try and start it "

so he did and it just would'nt start so he agreed it was empty.

 

Then the guy produces a big container full of "used" vegetable oil from local Fish & Chip shops

and starts to fill up the car with it. the presenter starts to laugh and the guy gets a very small cup of white spirit and puts it in after the vegetable oil, and then says to the presenter ok try it now. lol guy turns the key and it starts first time.

 

he says the local fish and chip shops are only to willing to give him this stuff as they have to pay to take it away. and the week after this was on tv the UK goverment started to tax him on it.

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The hidden cost of Energy and Efficiency.

 

Be wary of claims about Hybrid cars. There's a lot of information that the car companies and media aren't telling you.

 

Besides the increased cost of production and materials just for the vehicle, there's the little problem of disposing of those batteries that wear out over time. Can you imagine the cost to reclaim the heavy metals?!

 

The current gasoline formulas in the U. S. are free of Methyl Tertiary-Butyl Ether (MTBE)http://www.epa.gov/mtbe/. This additive was good for cars and the environment.

 

Now that MTBE has been banned, a replacement was needed. The closest convenient oxidiser compound to MTBE is Ethanol(grain alcohol).

 

One of the big problem this year has been converting the refineries from using MTBE inclusion in the process. There are currently three major refineries down for MTBE conversion and two more still out of commission from Katrina and Rita.

 

The second major issue is the use of Ethanol as a oxidizer in gasoline. Ethanol has an affinity for water. This means you can't move Ethanol through pipelines. Even tanker trucks have to be treated carefully to eliminate the entrainment of water. There are currently too few transport taker trucks to fill the demand both in quantity and location.

 

Ethanol can't be added until the gasoline reaches the wholesaler for distribution to the retailer. Retailers that have compromised tanks will dispense gasoline with a lot more water entrained causing problems for engines and fuel system.

 

E85 is getting lots of press since it has such a high Ethanol content http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasohol.

 

The problem with using Ethanol is that currently it takes more energy to produce Ethanol than you get from its use. The current most accepted rate is 1.34 energy units to produce 1 energy unit of Ethanol.

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