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Question about Expert and dying CPUs


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hold on hold on hold on here lol

 

lets see if this makes sense to everyone

 

so

 

you have a cpu that does NOT do 3.1Ghz by default' date=' because the fastest cpu AMD makes is what...2.6Ghz? 2.8Ghz?

 

[b']and your cpu is only a 2.0Ghz cpu by default, correct?[/b]

 

and then earlier you say this:

 

 

 

which we'll assume you are one of those ADVANCED users that is much more advanced than anyone here or any other forum on the net

 

agree so far?

 

ok

 

so

 

lets break down your bits here...

 

you have a cpu clocked to 3.1Ghz, which IS overclocked, yet you THINK it is NOT overclocked because...you lowered the LDT multiplier? An internal link multiplier that has zero to do with manipulating actual cpu speed?

 

 

How dense are you? I quoted a post specifically saying that my HTT was overclocked, so I responded by saying that the motherboard link was not. Did I mention the CPU being underclocked anywhere in there? Didn't think so.

 

Hold up

 

I thought you were 'Xtreme'

 

or maybe you never said that, but you sounded there for a minute like you were telling us you knew about this stuff...but then you say something as incorrect as this? (about the LDT multi being only 3 so "TECHNICALLY" you are underclocked?)

 

I do know about this stuff, much more than you most likely. Do a hardforums search on "computerpro3" in the psu section. Now I have a question for you; if the LDT multiplier is 5x, and I change it the 3x, isn't it UNDERCLOCKED? Obviosuly the CPU isn't, anyone with half a brain would know that I wasn't referring to cpu speed. Obviously this was lost on you.

 

I thought you KNEW about this stuff?

 

But what you have shown is that you know zero.[/qote]

 

I fail to see how....I would think my 3.52ghz overclock on my chilly1 modified r402a phase change unit (on my old board) as well as all of the stickes and guides that I have written that have been distributed over many forums would speak for themselves. I would think that my my previous near World Record with radeon 9700 pro's would speak for itself.

 

 

I advise you to go ask your Xtreme buddies if lowering the LDT multiplier down to 3x TECHNICALLY is not overclocking the cpu...even though your cpu is an Opteron 146, which Rgone and I both have, and they are 2Ghz cpu's by default...200x10.

 

If you could read you'd understand I never said that.

 

 

 

yes yes...I see...you don't really know what you are talking about, but if you sling enough bits and rumors around and talk like you have a clue as to what you are saying and that you are correct, and you are an expert and we know nothing, others will listen to you and believe you and not buy whatever it is that you bought then destroyed on your own.

 

Believe what you want, but bottom line is that I've been to overclocking heights you'll never reach. I don't have to prove I'm an expert; it's already well known. The fact that you're not aware of that has no bearing on the fact.

 

 

We see users like you every day...you burn up your rig by overclocking a cpu to 3Ghz+, and a lot of them are just like you...they know zero (because lets be honest here, anyone who claims that they are knowledgeable about overclocking then say something so ignorant as "lowering the LDT multipler to 3x means I am not overclocking" yet you overclocked the cpu from 2Ghz default speed to 3.1Ghz...is about the worst possible type of computer owner, and even worse than that, the worst type of internet/forum user....you are one who spreads lies and rumors without any proof to back it up, and I suppose even worse, you claim to have proof, yet your proof is ignorance and your own fairy-tale made-up overclocking knowledge that is so far from reality as to be less believable than...anything the best sci-fi/fantasy writer could come up with).

 

3ghz is nothing. I can hit that on stock voltage. Don't forget the board died too. So, if you see users in here all the time who die with 3ghz overclocks on stock voltage, can I get an official statement from DFI that the boards and chips die when you hit 3ghz? Would save you guys a lotta tech support problem, but might cost you a few thousand sales.....

 

I advise you, seriously, before you post one more word at this forum, to go off and be a good citizen and do some real homework about cpu's and memory and more specifically, overclocking (hey! there's a comprehensive Overclocking Guide in the AMD- Overclocking section of these forums!).

 

ROFL I've hit a higher overclocks than 99.99% of the people on this forum! 3.52ghz day to day! I've been very close to #1 several times even. I've run 2GB of memory @ 272mhz 2-2-2-5, and taken my 7900GT to 714/1920 with much more room to go. Perhaps it is I who should write a guide for you. Then perhaps you'll stop thinking 3ghz is something special....

 

Because seriously...we have zero tolerance for rumor mongerers like you who make our jobs and our lives difficult.

 

It takes 100 posts to eliminate 1 single rumor post

 

and rgone and I personally do not have time to make 100 posts to correct your ignorance.

 

I noticed that. You just delete the informative threads instead.

 

And I tell you honestly, Rgone and I work the OFFICIAL DFI tech support email, as well as this forum, as well as plenty of internal communication with DFI.

 

OOOOH OFFICIAL. You have any idea how many dumbasses there are working in tech support world over? that means nothing.

 

We've seen no cases where we can truly say that the boards have killed cpu's without the user doing some odd thing (almost always overclocking).

 

I have a question; what is the DFI board designed to do? I mean, why choose it over the ASUS? Because it is slower at stock speeds......

 

 

The fact remains and is true for all who walk this path. There will be failures and that is why manufacturers created SPECIFICATIONS. If you choose to operate anything outside of specified parameters then you can blame none other than yourself. Suck it up move on and don't cry to me because I know and understand this

 

I sure wish DFI followed specifications that every other manufacturer did. If they had, maybe AMD wouldn't have barred them from the approved motherboard list.

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It looks like we have ourselves here another "confrontation" regarding claims that Experts kill CPU's. While this conversation is taking place amongst those not in my support jurisdiction, I'm certain that Europeans will read this. So the record needs to be set straight once again.

 

-Fact1: Only myself, and other certified DFI technicians can make a binding

technical judgement as to the fitness of a DFI product. Anyone else's

opinion is just that. Opinion. This is regardless of stature or purported

technical skill lvl.

-Fact2: To make such judgements a number of resources are required. Access to

board schematics, Access to ECO's, FAE status, Access to FAE/R&D

department, and ability to test reported issues under proper lab

conditions. To my knowledge such resources are not generally made

available to the public.

-Fact3: You Oc'd the system and made an active decision to do it. At that

moment you accepted the risks involved. OCing always has, is, and will

be a risky endevour. DFI provides you with the possibility

to OC. The decision to do it is yours and the risks are yours as well.

 

With all due respect to the poster you are not a motherboard technician and until such time as you are hired by DFI as a technician claims made by yourself as to the technical fitness of our products are irrelevent. It is not intended that this come over as harsh or rude but it is also not acceptable that rumor and speculation take over from fact. I am intimately aware of the circumstances regarding the claims made at XS about this matter. I have also posted my comments on that forum there a few months ago. Again any fact that might have been present at the start of the issue got entirely swept away by speculation and panic.

 

You are right about one thing. There are alot of support staff out there who are not worth squat. I can only assure you that A_G and R-Gone are not part of the incompetant crowd. I would not recommend or refer people from my support jurisdiction to this forum if it was otherwise. As we are fortunate enough to live in a free society and it is of course your choice as to how to respond to this or even believe any of it. It's just words on a screen I know. Again sorry if this sounds harsh, arrogant or overbearing, but after reading thru this thread the matter needs to be brought into sharp perspective.

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Well, I'm glad to see DFI boards can only run @ stock speeds. Or at least from AG's claims, otherwise you run the risk of your processor and motherboard dying. Also AG, if you want a comparison about what the HT link does (something you obviously know nothing about) I suggest you read the following comparison about it:

 

http://eclipseoc.com/index.php?id=6,47,0,0,1,0

 

3x310 = 930MHz, 1860MHz effective. 70MHz under spec (140MHz effective), but in no way degrades the performance of the LDT itself. Feel free to prove me wrong on that, though.

 

Last time I came here for help, I got completely misguided support. Glad to see the legend is still alive around these parts. I love the "almost always overclocking" comment. God knows everyone buys DFI to run stock speeds.

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Well, I'm glad to see DFI boards can only run @ stock speeds. Or at least from AG's claims, otherwise you run the risk of your processor and motherboard dying. Also AG, if you want a comparison about what the HT link does (something you obviously know nothing about) I suggest you read the following comparison about it:

 

http://eclipseoc.com/index.php?id=6,47,0,0,1,0

 

3x310 = 930MHz, 1860MHz effective. 70MHz under spec (140MHz effective), but in no way degrades the performance of the LDT itself. Feel free to prove me wrong on that, though.

 

Last time I came here for help, I got completely misguided support. Glad to see the legend is still alive around these parts. I love the "almost always overclocking" comment. God knows everyone buys DFI to run stock speeds.

 

 

Don't be the fool and mis-quote like that. Obviously DFI boards are built with overclocking in mind. But under every motherboard manufacturers warranty, it says that you do it at your own risk (even your precious ASUS). They just give you the tools to get all that you want out of your system, if you're willing to risk it. If you don't want to use one anymore, that's fine. Go buy an Asus and have fun.

 

I don't get what the . problem is here. I'm overclocking my Processor right now. Although modest compared to some (10x250) it's still overclocking. If my chip happens to die because of it, it's only my fault. NOT DFI, NOT AMD, only myself. And I'll have to live with that.

 

I can't believe you guys are coming in here with clocks FAR higher than mine complaining about dead CPU's. What did you expect? Oh wait you're the master of OC'ing, I guess you expected Rainbows to start flying out of your computer chasis.

 

Shut up, stop whining. And especially, get over yourself. Your CPU died, live with it.

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A few clarifacations based on my personal observations. NOTE: before I begin, I don't wish to make any personal attacks on anyone, and would be VERY happy if the flaming and attacks would be toned down a bit. Let's handle this like gentlemen, shall we?

 

computerpro3 was pointing out that although he reached an overclock of greater than 30%, greater than 3 GHZ, it shouldn't kill a CPU, because the CPU wasn't receiving enough volts to fry it. This isn't EXACTLY true, but it's accepted as a general rule. If a CPU overclock isn't 100% stable, timing in the opening and closing of the logic gates in the transistors is off, and thus the chip is unstable, and will slowly be eaten away. This IS NOT what happened, however. The chip suddenly died, along with the Motherboard. This kind of "Sudden Death" of a chip generally only happens when the chip is given an unusually high level of voltage. I have at least a basic understanding of microprocessor design.

 

Also, now this is where I might get something wrong, please forgive me if I do. The total FSB of the motherboard/CPU at stock is 2000 MT/S. It's the actual FSB times the HyperTransport multi of 5x, really it's 1000 MHZ, but it's rated at 2000 MT/S. (again, as I understand it). The board was running at 310 FSB x3 HT = 930 total FSB. 70MHZ (140 mt/s) under spec. The voltage of everything on the board was at stock. Again, sudden death wouldn't happen without a power spike, or condensation, or some other environmental issue, UNLESS there's a flaw with the board. Now, I've seen a poll at XtremeSystems saying that 30% of DFI Lanparty Expert boards and RDX200 boards have died and/or killed a CPU, or at least, those that participated in a poll. I personally own an Expert, problem-free since day 1, all at stock. I must admit though, those statistics did scare me, especially since I plan on eventually overclocking. I've read 5 threads now at XS, with settings that generally wouldn't cause the sudden death of a chip. Only one of these was a pre-release version of the Expert. Another scary thing I've read is the fact (now there may be some reason the designers have for this, and if there is, forgive me for bringing this up) that some revision AA0 Expert boards have a cut trace near the SPDIF port STRAIGHT FROM THE FACTORY, which to me, seems like a serious defect, especially since that's the general area of the CPU voltage regulation systems.

 

Now, let me say I have decided I'll run my computer at stock settings for one year from this day. And if my board/CPU dies suddenly (with no environmental component, like an outside surge or ESD), DFI WILL hear from me, and I will be expecting full compensation.

 

I've done a lot of research, but I am not without my mistakes. If any of my information is wrong, please correct me (but at the same time, I ask you treat me like a human being).

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I diddn't realise I mentioned Asus anywhere in my post. And you blame the processor killing the motherboard? Generally, the motherboard kills the processor, but apparently in DFI-Denial.com it's all CPU or PSU based, never their defective boards. :P I'm sure OPB's golden X2 and countless other chips got murdered within days of being put into these boards just because it was completely coincidental.

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[Though this is directed towards the mods and towards technicians such as angry_games - No flaming is intended; just simple questioning and ideas lie below]

 

How's it going guys?

 

I've been lurking around here for a while now trying to figure out which DFI board to get. I finally made my choice (expert) and have 2 sitting right beside me (not installed).

 

However reading this thread, as well as count;ess others, I have to say a few things because they're annoying the hell out of me.

 

First off, to all the DFI "tech support" and moderators on the forum, I truly understand what you mean about rumors. Once one starts, it takes effort to put it to rest. However, how can you sit there and say that IF the user OCs his chip, and it dies, to damn bad? You know as well as I do that DFIs sole purpose for making boards (desktop oriented) is for overclocking. PERIOD.

 

I even started a post a few days ago in regards to a new intel board I saw on a card which came with my Expert and was told by a mod that DFI targets AMD as that's where the "entusiast" crowd tends to be - or something of that nature. I'm sorry to say, but by saying enthusiast, he simply mean overclockers - period. Stop trying to hide the fact. I don't care if I take a chip from 2.0Ghz to 2.1Ghz, or as high as 3.1Ghz - as long as the voltages are reasonable, along with the temps, and a few other settings, the chip SHOULD not, and WILL not die.

 

I'm tired of hearing this argument of "well it wasn't stock, therefore it was user error." That's a complete, and utter cop-out. Just because the expert hasn't killed YOU 146, doesn't mean it hasn't killed ANYONEs 146 from MALFUNCTION.

 

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I will also say that I have yet seen ONE person try and help computerpro, or anyone else with these claims. All I see is "user error", or it was a "rare occasion". How about explaining what "user error" was the cause of this, or what the "rare occassion" was? Now I know there are "tons" of things users can do wrong, but to fry a chip, it's unlikely.

 

You guys ALSO have to remember that when people, especially at XS overclock their chips, it's not on AIR, but rather chilled liquid, phase, or dry ice. With that said, 1.52v, even 1.65v isn't "insane". Under those circumstances, above average voltage is partly acceptable and will NOT cause a chip to fry.

 

Now onto the board. "Rumor" has it that there is 2 reasons why the board allegedly frys a processor. The first reason is while turning the PC on AND off, it overvolts the vcore to an astounding 3v. The second issue was said to be the difference between high vdimm and low vcore, or vice versa.

 

With this being said, why hasn't any of the mods TESTED this? Why not take a precious 146, overclocking it to 2.6-2.8, or whatever it can reach, and perform these tests? I for one don't leave my PC on 24/7, therefore WILL be turnign the PC on and OFF, daily.

 

Why can't we simply have a mod run diagnostics on the board? Why not run simple expeiriments of turning the computer on and off al day, say once an hour, or something similar. On the same line of thought, why not have another, or the same machine doign the same thing, but with ram which accepts a vdimm of 3.4ish and a cpu running at 1.4-1.45v.

 

Surely if a moderator can show viable evidence of the tests and the results, it can put these issues to rest. Why don't you guys even start a thread, like this, but asking ONLY the users who this has happened to, to post up what processor they had, what board revision, what bios, and if they remember, what settings they were using. Maybe a commonality will form, or a "user-error" will show, ointing out what exactly is causing this problem.

 

Think about it, if a user has an Ultra-D or an SLI-DR and everything is running perfectly for a year or so, then they switch to an expert, and 3 days later their chip dies - you're going to tell me that's user error? Please . . .

 

The only reason I'm responding to this thread is because of the LACK of support moderators and DFI technicians are providing. Instead of arguing with members saying "It's your fault!", why not take a single weekend, or a single week at the most, and TEST these accusations. If no tests are conducted then DO NOT say it's not the board.

 

Now realize, just because you have the board and are using it perfectly fine does not mean the board is perfect. Start a "Data" thread, or a "Database" on the forum first. Try to dicipher what revision is "commonly" affected. Then perform the test of turning the pc on and off, and the same with the vdimm and vcore. Once the tests are conducted, with any evidence mods can provide, maybe we can put this rumor to rest, or if it is in fact true, it can be fixed.

 

It seems tests like above can be done to see what a certain memory can do as far as overclocking, or the difference betwee 1T and 2T command rates, or even tutorials on getting XP to run faster, setting up the Ultra-D, and cleaning chipsets HSF. If this is such a big, "reoccuring" incident, why not use common sense and test the issue, just like Angry_Games memory tests? All it takes is at most, a week one technician on THESE forums testing the boards - is that to much to ask as a DFI customer?

 

When my car breaks down, mechanics don't immediately say, "Oh, you did something wrong, to bad for you!". They take the time to look under the hood, look at underlying components, and try to figure out what went wrong. Why not do the same?

 

I just leave you with ONE more thought. If this is suppossedly "uder-error", why are users running Ultra-D's, or SLI-DRs not having ANY problems, or at least as many incidents of frying CPUs as the expert. I seriously doubt users just decided to blame the expert for this. If this was SOLELY user error, than we would be seeing the same things happening, at the same rate with other DFI boards . . .

 

Jnick

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3ghz is nothing. I can hit that on stock voltage. Don't forget the board died too. So, if you see users in here all the time who die with 3ghz overclocks on stock voltage, can I get an official statement from DFI that the boards and chips die when you hit 3ghz?

 

ROFL I've hit a higher overclocks than 99.99% of the people on this forum! 3.52ghz day to day! I've been very close to #1 several times even. I've run 2GB of memory @ 272mhz 2-2-2-5

 

Well, it's very obvious that computerpro3 is BS'ing here since nobody runs chips at 3Ghz on stock voltage that were designed to run at 2Ghz. If that was possible (which it isn't) then imagine what kind of overclocks these "elite" overclockers would be getting when they did touch the vcore!? Why would anyone be buying faster chips? Why aren't all these experts sharing their secrets that allow all the rest of us noobs to run our chips at 3Ghz on stock voltage if it's that easy? There are only a finite number of settings and variables in the BIOS, so achieving 3Ghz so easily on stock voltage can't be too hard, can it? Why don't you guys share your secrets? I want to know.

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When my car breaks down, mechanics don't immediately say, "Oh, you did something wrong, to bad for you!". They take the time to look under the hood, look at underlying components, and try to figure out what went wrong. Why not do the same?

Jnick

 

LOL, you obviously don't own a Jeep. DC is renowned for denying warranty service if they think you have been off-roading in your Jeep...a JEEP for cripes sake...why would you buy a Jeep if you can't off road the thing. This is especially true if you have modded anything on your Jeep that even is remotely related to better off-road performance.

 

That said, they also state up front that off-roading will void your warranty...however, I think it sucks when Jeep does this as well :rolleyes:

 

I do think you have some interesting points of discussion there jnick.

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