PC4000 neccessary?

[aherrij]

First post, I've been lurking for quite awhile now. This rig is going to primarily be for gaming and browsing. Keep in mind this will be my first attempt at overclocking. I was hoping to hit 2.5ghz on the 3200+ Venice chip.

 

Will PC4000 RAM make my overclocking easier or more stable, rather than pushing the limits of PC3200 and running multipliers and dividers?

 

I'm concerned about the timings on most 2x1GB PC4000 ram modules like Mushkin and OCZ Gold and G. Skill. Should I really be worried about the timings, or just be happy with the bandwidth capabilities of PC4000?

 

I've seen the benchmarks, but will running PC4000 make a noticable difference while gaming versus PC3200 on my proposed system? (provided I'm taking advantage of the RAM with an OC'ed processor)

 

I'm leaning towards PC4000, simply because it makes the upgradablity path a little easier, whcih I am trying to do with this computer.

 

 

All three of these modules have sweet MIR deals right now...

NewEgg 2x1GB OCZ Gold Edition PC4000

Mushkin 2x1GB eXtreme

G. Skill Extreme Series 2x1GB

[Nand12]

I just ordered the OCZ PC-4000 Gold Edition 2 x 1 GB set. PC4000 will make a difference if you overclock but if you're not overclocking, you won't notice the difference. It will also keep the system significantly more stable than if you overclocked using PC3200 RAM. Plus high performance PC3200 is almost as much as PC4000 especially with vendors like OCZ and Corsair, so why not spring for the PC4000? Hope this helps.

[aherrij]

Well, I was just doing some more reading courtesy of Angry here, and his benchmarks clearly show that CPU mhz is king, regardless of memory bandwidth or latency or dividers. I read all of his rant, and it was beautiful.

 

So I guess I'll just hit up the PC4000, not worry about the timings or whatever, and hopefully hit 2.5mhz stable with 250x10.

 

Or maybe I'm going for the extra 1-5% performance for a lot more money that AG likes to rant about.

 

 

I don't know. I read a little bit, think I have it figured out, then read a bit more, and get totally lost again, lol. Please someone throw me a bone.

[aherrij]

I just ordered the OCZ PC-4000 Gold Edition 2 x 1 GB set. PC4000 will make a difference if you overclock but if you're not overclocking, you won't notice the difference. It will also keep the system significantly more stable than if you overclocked using PC3200 RAM. Plus high performance PC3200 is almost as much as PC4000 especially with vendors like OCZ and Corsair, so why not spring for the PC4000? Hope this helps.

 

Thanks. That makes sense. Get PC4000 RAM that was designed for high speeds rather than pushing PC3200. I'll just have to decide on either the Mushkin or OCZ that I mentioned above.

 

I do plan on overclocking, btw.

[Sharp]

Lower timings do have an impact, just imagine if UTT BH-5 could not do 2-2-2-5@250Mhz

[Formula_1]

I don't know. I read a little bit, think I have it figured out, then read a bit more, and get totally lost again, lol. Please someone throw me a bone.

LOL, you sound just like me. I was ready to order some ram this weekend and now I hear of new modules coming that offer slightly better timings. I am going to hold off until they hit the streets.

 

I believe PC4000 is a better choice for the NF4 boards, especially ones like the DFI's.

[aherrij]

Lower timings do have an impact, just imagine if UTT BH-5 could not do 2-2-2-5@250Mhz

 

I understand that much, Sharp. How much of an impact, though, is what I'm concerned with. According to angry, it seems that the overall timings have little effect on overall system speed (other than ram bandwidth) beyond +1-5%. If lowering the 3-4-3-8 stock ratings can increase overall system performance more than this...let me know. If I can score an extra 5% system performance by kicking down timings without any trouble, I'll certainly be up for it, but I don't plan to spend hours and hours fiddling with timing stability for a couple of percent improvement.

 

Like I said above, I'm a novice overclocker, looking for an easy ticket to faster clock speeds.

[old_geekster]

I understand that much, Sharp. How much of an impact, though, is what I'm concerned with. According to angry, it seems that the overall timings have little effect on overall system speed (other than ram bandwidth) beyond +1-5%. If lowering the 3-4-3-8 stock ratings can increase overall system performance more than this...let me know. If I can score an extra 5% system performance by kicking down timings without any trouble, I'll certainly be up for it, but I don't plan to spend hours and hours fiddling with timing stability for a couple of percent improvement.

 

Like I said above, I'm a novice overclocker, looking for an easy ticket to faster clock speeds.

 

I believe that you have gotten exactly the point that AG made very convincingly.

 

We are not OC-ing for OC-ing itself, we are OC-ing to enjoy the games or other software programs that we choose to use.

 

I am new to OC-ing as well and this has given me a whole new perspective on OC-ing.

 

Thanks for starting this thread! It was extremely helpful.

 

In fact, I am going back to my sig and make some changes.

[aherrij]

Thanks for the input guys. I guess I'll go with the PC4000.

 

Any ideas on OCZ vs. Mushkin? It's pretty much a crapshoot though, methinks.

[aherrij]

Just wanted to bump this once more, here's what I think AG was getting at, it directly reflects was he was saying on the page that I linked to in post #7.

 

PC4000/HTT Multiplier/Timings Benchmark

[arklab]

Well, I see I'm not alone in my confusion.

 

I (think) I have established a few things, though:

 

1) Forget value ram - go high-end ram or switch to Asus/Gigabyte/Abit boards.

2) Beware (or be cautious) of some brands of ram: ie. Corsair - always check with their on-line techs prior to purchase.

3) Always check the "Recomended RAM" threads - for your motherboard. For instance, as I just recieved a "Venus" board I may have other choices than my current "Expert" board, which is different then an Ultra D.

4) Even within "good" brands, check on the type of chip used (TCCD vs BH5)

5) Use just two DIMMs - forget four or one for best proformance.

6) T1 is better than T2.

7) 2-2-2-5 is better than 4-4-4-8 (if averything else is equal - which it never is lol)

8) As in the "Overclocking Guide", first find out the max OC of your CPU by backing WAY off RAM settings; then figure out how fast a RAM you can even use. (How you do this before you get RAM is a real trick! A friend or place like Fry's with a two week return policy certainly helps)

 

So I'm at the point I am bigining to understand all these things.

I sit down.

I gather all this data.

I mentally sort and sift it all.

A rational choice begins to form.

 

Then everything starts to gray-out,

the room seems to spin,

my thoughts flee and ...

 

I'm back where I started, without a clue as to what I should buy. :confused:

 

DANG these senior moments! :mad:

[aherrij]

arklab,

 

I'm not even sure of what TCCD or BH5 are, or the difference between the two. I hope the Mushkin RAM I just ordered today isn't the bad kind, lol.

 

And no, it's not a senior moment, I went around in circles for about 2 weeks trying to at least get a handle on this RAM stuff. I just had to convince myself that DDR500 timings weren't all that important (which they aren't - maybe worth 1-5% performance for lower vs. higher timings) and that the RAM I was ordering was good enough.

 

If you're interested, I ended up ordering the Mushkin stuff that I listed in my first post.