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cvt

What on earth is it you guys like about DFI?

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ok, so you don't say I don't know anything, I do reviews for a company, and my life is computer, and have so many peices lying around for testing its not funny... anyway.. to the point

Is this common over most DFI board, or just this model, or is it a RMA job, which they wouldn't even look at this one in that case..

This board... put simply is absolute rubbish, and would shame gigabyte having there brand name stamped on it, the onlu decent thing about it is the 'almost there, but still not quite yet' bios.

I have intensively tested this CPU, using different gfx cards, PSU's, RAM, HDD's, SC's, the lot... and the result is identical.

this board is a underperformer, I would lay that blame on ATi's chipset, that is not at all the concern, but the first complaint.

During installation, the layout of the board was great, something many manufacturers now ignore, Abit were the only one still doing this, and now even they are lacking, DFI seem to be along in good layouts...

After powering I was greeted with the very nice BIOS DFI provide, although still 1 step behind Abit, they are definately up there, tackling it another way.

All my hardware picked up without a flash, Windows installed with no issues, all drivers on, now for the stress test..

Rock stable over the 12hr test I run (standard) in the way on CPU and RAM. no errors at all.. something thats rare to see.. so that was nice.

3DMark06 successfully passed the 6hr test loop, nice.

HDD tests shown the first anomoly.. slave HDD to maser CD = 16bit adressing and no DMA..
swap it, the same, remove cd rom, its fine and works as it should.. new drivers, no help, latest flash, doesn;t help.. theres a bit of an odd issue here, and only seems to happen the the Seagate Barracuda 5 250g, the 120g ide I have is fine with the cdrom, and the 250g sits by itself now... so theres bug #1

next one, The onboard sound is rubbish, have either core over 60% and expect it to no longer run smooth, so much for there hd-audio

NB cooler is not adequate for overclocking.. this is rarely gotten right, but for a company thats brags about overclocking, this is pathetic, and is completely overlooked.

lastly, although tests like to show it as stable, it isn't, I have never gotten better than a 36 hour run out of this bought before a lockup or hardware error.
changed all hardware bare mobo and its still the same, fresh install, different driver versions and bios results in no difference..

so overall, I hate this board, and can't await the release of abits so I can throw this thing on ebay and get rid of it, its terrible...

I never disclude a company's boards just because of a single bad experience, but this is a great start. (sarcasm)

but heres my issue, I have now been asked to review this board... Has anyone else experienced these issues or is it a dud.. RMA won't work, they'll test it for the short std tests they do and bill me...

do I ask to get a new board, or review this one (review willbe with different hardware and will start from scratch, but I do already know most of the results)

if this is standard, my overall will be a 'DO NOT buy this motherboard, severly overpriced for small feature set, unstable, the good simply do not outweigh the bads'



I hope I get sensible replies and not "try another psu"
"corsair is not good ram"
"what service pack"
or other invalid and stupid replies, I just need to know if this is common for this model/company, or if I request a new board..

thanks.

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Here is your sensible reply! Maybe your board sucks and so I would get another one for your review! Once you get another one and this one works the same way I would say there is a problem with your hardware or your skills setting it up and would get your beloved ABIT board. Please keep in mind that this is a “help” forum and not a “whine” forum and you should maybe be contact the DFI headquarters in Taiwan if you still whish to do so. :nod:

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Here's another sensible reply:
I don't care what you think of your PSU, but it sucks for a high rated PSU. Gives no more than 25A @ 12v and 5A @ 5v under normal load, which is probably not enough to power your cpu, gpu and memory at high load. Antec efficiency doesn't go above 80% untill very high load (except for the Phantoms), which I hope you will understand isn't a good thing.

So yes, try another PSU, a decent one that [u]will[/u] deliver on demand (as in: this Antec will not). Also, on this board [u]it has to be[/u] an ATX 12v2.0/EPS PSU to ensure stability (I've had some trouble with that and an ATX12v1.3 PSU myself).

Another thing: why complain about the NB cooler for overclocking? Why would you even want to overclock the NB (which isn't a NB by the way)? The Hyper Transport throughput at 1000 MT/sec is about tenfold the throughput of PCI-E, so overclocking the chip isn't going to help you.

Anyway, at 1000 MT/sec the stock cooler will keep it under 50C, which is cool enough. If it get's above 50C, try cooling your case a little better, not the chip itself.

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Honestly I am a bit shocked at the quality of actual items these boards are eaher shipping with or are designed for.

User manual ? It is the worse booklet I have ever seen and here is why..If this is the top breed board with more options then god had to create the earth why is the booklet the least comprehensive manual in all the world ? You have bios options NO OTHER MAKES has,,but zero explaniation as to there workings and affects they have on the system..

The boards are said to require only TOP of the line components for operation..Yet they release an Expert board that somehow dont like proven high performance TCCD ram ? This eludes me to such an extent that I am speechless to even suggest what i think of it.

HAd the release been for socked M2 ok then lets learn all the new quality ram options BUT ya get thousands to buy the SLI/DR and then Release the upgrade only to make the TOP QUALITY parts the user had to run the SLI/DR useless in the expert ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

You sell a board thet requires ON LINE support,,,With out it ya are left with a manual of useless proportions..But imagine if the user is depending on this new board to get him on line ? LMAO now what ? no manual of any use and no on line supoport...

I don't know what the answer is,DFI people seam to blame the users and user hardware.Yet release items with real poor documentation..Then when a user BUYS only the best hardware money can buy there next board released refuses to work with the top of the line items already on hand :) . .

My suggestion to DFI would be to produce consistant winners with better documentation,If you have 13 ram settings and other board makers all have 4 it is YOUR responsibility to provide detailed WRITTEN explanations of these additional 9 settings.As it should be your responsibility to LIST in the manual EXACTLY what products have been approved to run in the main board in question by PRINTING the manufactures you have tested and approved for your main boards..

To me a top of the line board starts with clear concise documentation filled with warrnings,tips,and explaniations..not 4 languages of the least basic items required to install hardware..

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ok, ur right about it not being a northbridge, force of habit.. but mine is running constant at 66C, was 62C when on the bench, with a temp gun, has been removed and had thermal paste replaced to not change it, the ht on the msi/abit/asus runs around that 50C with stock cooler.. IMO this one shoulda doen the same, but on this particular board it not
thats why I complained.

The TP2 supplys 38A on the 12v rails. and 40A on 5v, and it can do those concurrently, and it IS a ATX 2.0... I don;t know what model you are thinking of, but this is not the one.
and I did try my trusty 850W in it, powers not the issue.

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[quote name='HITandRUN']Here is your sensible reply! Maybe your board sucks and so I would get another one for your review! Once you get another one and this one works the same way I would say there is a problem with your hardware or your skills setting it up and would get your beloved ABIT board. Please keep in mind that this is a “help” forum and not a “whine” forum and you should maybe be contact the DFI headquarters in Taiwan if you still whish to do so. :nod:[/quote]

anything of value in this post?

"maybe your board sucks" I know that, whole point of the post...
"get another one for review" if other users of it have the same complaints.. why?
"if next one doesn't work..." so its my fault if its a bad board, you representing DFI or just plain stupid?
"beloved ABIT" up till recently they've been the best in every way, and I still have unrivaled OC's from there boards that noone else, or even myself with many other brands of boards based on the same chipsets can't even touch.
"this is a “help” forum" I'm asking if others have these issues.. so talking to some snobs in taiwan who will send me at best a pdf and a link to where to download drivers and bios is going to answer how many people have this problem?

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If the NB (let's call it that for ease) really gets around 66C and you are positive your case cooling is adequate, something is wrong indeed. It shouldn't exceed 50C, 55C tops just like a 'normal' MSI/ABIT/ASUS NB would. If you're sure, RMA the board...

As for the Antec True Power 2.0 550 (or any Antec except the Phantom for that matter): it cannot live up to its own specifications. I know the specs say two times 19A @ 12v, but surely you must know you can't just add them? I will eat my shoe if the combined output @ 12v exceeds 300 Watts (or 25A), because that is where the majority of Antecs trip their overcurrent protection. Maybe 26A or 27A sometimes even, but not 38A.

Despite that, I do think 25A @ 12v would be just about enough for your cpu/gpu. But the 40A @ 5v are more like 5A under real life normal load tests, near 10A if you're lucky. That's no more than 50 Watts available for hard drives, optical drives, memory, motherboard, etc. My guess: that's where your stability problem is.

When a PSU runs hot (let's say above 40-45C internal temp), efficiency drops further which makes it deliver even less power. High load @ 12v (cpu + gpu mainly) will strongly limit the capacity @ 3.3v + 5v. I'm not sure where you live, but I believe the U.S. version of this PSU doesn't have Active PFC (according to Silent PC Preview anyway), which brings the Power Factor down to around 0.9 instead of the ideal 1.0 (or 0.99 with active PFC).

A lot of stuff to consider, I know. But these are important things to be sure of when drawing conclusions about this board, especially when you are a reviewer. I understand your anger about the instability and other generally unpleasant trouble, but please consider using another PSU (like the Enermax FMA 535 or Seasonic S12 500).

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I understand fully what ur saying, and honestly have not tested this PSU to see just what it does stand up to.

I did test the old atx1.2 which claimed identical current, and I pulled 20A on 5v and 15A on each 12v rail and then did the std noise/drop tests, and it did stand up to it, there was no load on any of the other rails.

thats at 83% load (from there claimed 550W) and it remained good at it.. Like I said, that was on the old atx1.2 model, maybe they have cut backon quality,as I'm in the process of moving a lot of my gear is lost in boxes so can't test this one out, but if they are as bad as ur saying now.. I would have thought to have noticed it during the stress testing.. as with several hdd working, 100% cpu and gpu load, and no lockup.

nothing is sounding consintant :/

I am not in the US, and I know that the 110v ones are not as efficient as the 240v ones, so I do have a small benefit there, for example, most 300W PSU's, will supply 250W on 110v supply and 300W on 240v supply, i know this for a fact.. I don;t know if ur luckyenough to get 240v anywhere over there, but if you can, test it and you'll see..

eitherway, I have tested with a 850W PSU (way overated but much more powerful than this antec), as that was something that had crossed my mind as I do hve a heap of power draw inside my computer, much more than most people do, but that is not the case..

I don't have any enermax atx2 on hand otherwise I would have tested with one, as they have been for ages my favorite psu's

trust me, I'm the first person to call out to people about bad power to the computer, I know its the biggest cause of instability and dead hardware.

I do agree with you in many sense... except that its not the issue in this case... I wish it was as if this board was stable, I'd be happienough with it (though I might have to get out with the black texta and "fix" the yellow :P), just a pc that locks is thefirst thing to make me change boards.

but if you say the cooler is adequate, there is an issue of some sort, wether the cause of the instability or not still waits to be told, is running hotter than most, I will go and RMA this, and see what I get returned to me.

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[quote name='cvt']...I did test the old atx1.2 which claimed identical current, and I pulled 20A on 5v and 15A on each 12v rail and then did the std noise/drop tests, and it did stand up to it, there was no load on any of the other rails...[/quote]
This is exactly where Antecs problem is compared to other PSUs; when stressing the lines simultaneously (to simulate real life conditions) they affect each others capacity more than other PSUs do. So the 12v lines might stand up to the job on their own, but they limit the 5v line doing just that and vice versa. As a result all of the lines are somewhat limited under typical load (230 Watts).

And indeed, in my opinion ATX 12v 1.3 (single 12v rail) was better, more efficient and more powerful than ATX 12v 2.0 (dual 12v rail). So the older 1.2 spec Antec could well be a better performer than the newer 2.0 spec.

I am not against Antec or anything and their PSUs are not the worst you can buy, but it's just my opinion that they should stick to building cases and such instead of PSUs. The product they deliver is just not worth the money you end up paying for it.

[quote name='cvt']I am not in the US, and I know that the 110v ones are not as efficient as the 240v ones, so I do have a small benefit there, for example, most 300W PSU's, will supply 250W on 110v supply and 300W on 240v supply, i know this for a fact.. I don;t know if ur luckyenough to get 240v anywhere over there, but if you can, test it and you'll see..[/quote]
I'm not in the US either, so I couldn't tell you the difference. Only the European versions have Active PFC.

[quote name='cvt']but if you say the cooler is adequate, there is an issue of some sort, wether the cause of the instability or not still waits to be told, is running hotter than most, I will go and RMA this, and see what I get returned to me.[/quote]
I'm on my first DFI also since a couple of days (five years of MSI boards before this), and I really can't notice a difference in NB temps. 66C really is high, the NB should never reach that on it's own. Have you double checked the voltage on the chip? Could be too high...

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[quote name='cvt']Hahaha, I know how ya feel...
either this company makes rubbish, and dfi users simply have no idea, or this model is a dud.

but you talk to nice.. and didn't get the flaming i got :)

to add to the issues one thing you emntioned here reminded me..

every cold boot theres a hang in winodws loading for about 30 seconds, which does not occur from a warm or hard boot
*not occuring anymore, it was with a different hardware combo, but was there.[/quote]

Indeed, all these people with their overclocked machines that are completely stable just refuse to admit the company is rubbish. And all the 'pro' overclockers going for world records using DFI boards are just as blind.

I'm sorry, but seriously if you don't want help you must be pretty lonely to sit on these forums complaining. There are many here that'd be more than happy to give you some advice but they don't even want to deal with you and your "I've been building computer forever, I know what I'm doing attitude" and I don't blame them. If you want help fine, I won't turn you away. But please realize that the vast, VAST majority of DFI users are quite pleased, and out of the thousands of boards made there can and WILL be some that don't perform up to par-regardless of the company.

I'm not saying your board is shot, personally I think that its fine from what you've said already. If it makes you feel better RMA it, whatever. Personally I'd damn well make sure it isn't a setting that hasn't been entered correctly. In any case, a couple of questions if you have the patience (and please take you know-it-all attitude and put it aside for the moment, actually TRY some of this stuff since it might actually help).

1. If it helps, it sounds like either a problem with your PSU (yes, I'm aware that you may have tested an 850 watt one, though the wording was a bit unclear) or a problem with your memory.

2. What test did you run for 12 hours? I would recommend Prime95 blend as it tests both the cpu and memory pretty extensively.

3. Did you manually input timings and voltages?

4. Have you unhooked ALL HDDs except for one with your OS on it? I have NEVER heard of a review site testing a board with 7 hard disks right off the bat by the way, Seems a little...whatever...(If you were using a RAID array before I'd recommend just using one for the time being, just one less thing to consider)

5. I would also reinstall the OS by the way, preferably with SP2 slipstreamed on it.

6. Try other slots for the memory if you have to, for some people yellow is better than orange...


[quote name='cvt']I hope I get sensible replies and not "try another psu"
"corsair is not good ram"
"what service pack"
or other invalid and stupid replies, I just need to know if this is common for this model/company, or if I request a new board..[/quote]

If you really consider these "invalid or stupid replies" then you can leave. These are common solutions to problems that are all over this site, maybe you have tried some of them, maybe not. In any case I won't tolerate you just complaining endlessly. Either TRY to get some help, RMA the damn thing, or throw it on the street. I don't particularly give a damn.

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Just to add to this all..PLEASE REMEMBER THIS BOARD IS MADE FOR OVER CLOCKING WHICH MEANS IF YOU JUST PLUG IN AND START UP EVRY THING AT AUTO SETTINGS IN THE BIOS YOU WILL HAVE BAD PERFORMANCE !!!!The board has every setting you could possibly think of in the bios in order to fine tune to what your hardware is. So please do not think you can just plug in hardware and leave the bios at the default auto settings and then expect the mobo to perform for you !!! Its simple man the board is designed for overclocking and overclockers so you better get in the bios and fix it up so it can run properly.

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[quote name='DRDNA']Just to add to this all..PLEASE REMEMBER THIS BOARD IS MADE FOR OVER CLOCKING WHICH MEANS IF YOU JUST PLUG IN AND START UP EVRY THING AT AUTO SETTINGS IN THE BIOS YOU WILL HAVE BAD PERFORMANCE !!!!The board has every setting you could possibly think of in the bios in order to fine tune to what your hardware is. So please do not think you can just plug in hardware and leave the bios at the default auto settings and then expect the mobo to perform for you !!! Its simple man the board is designed for overclocking and overclockers so you better get in the bios and fix it up so it can run properly.[/quote]

Well said! :)

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