AGP not enough card? Think again

[vector7]

Hmmm…

I was working on this same equation over the weekend.

Brilliant minds think alike…

 

I got my $200.00 X850 XT rolling with a better HSF last week. I had been running it on my 3400 and then over the weekend put it on the 4000+. I was trying to get RGone and friends to join the FPS hunt in that I was seeing some subtle differences on PCIX vs AGP 3Dmark2k1SE nature scores. I ran at 4x/8X and 128MB/256MB in the bios and saw no increase in performance if anything the higher settings created more instability when overclocking the vcard.

I was feeling good about my X850 XT score until I saw an XT1800 nature score in XS. I think the stock R520 core/memory clock is at 625Mhz/750Mhz. I believe he got his X1800 XT clocked to 702/810. It seems this individual was breaking 420FPS in nature which makes me wonder if it’s the card and or the architecture that gave it such speed. This got me thinking… Maybe it’s worth going to PCIX card after all. Not having a PCIX vcard to draw information from. I began looking around and then saw this informative thread.

Thanks AG!

 

Here is where I ran mine:

DFI UT250

4000+ Newark

305*10=3050MHz @ 1.55v

SLK 948U

2-512MB OCZ400512ELGEVX @ 3.20v

Cas2 10-2-2-2 12-16 1T 166

WinXP

 

X850 XT 560/648

 

Here is the Opty at 292*10.

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8804875

 

Is the R520 basically a slightly faster R481GPU with faster ram? Or is the PCI X architecture helping out pace the AGP solution?

 

Bottom line:

Do we just have to run more aggressive cooling on the R481’s to keep up with the XT1800/1900's?

v7

 

EDIT: Are the ATI R480/R520/R580 and Nvidia NV43/G70 PCI Express cards just faster stepping GPU's and memory versions of there R481/NV40 AGP siblings? This could be giving PCI Express an edge over the same brand AGP version cards not the architecture.

[JCamaro]

I would agree with Angry except for one thing, the dreaded NF3/6800 series stuttering issue. Of course the solution to this is an ATi card. Unfortunately I purchased my 6800GT before I had an NF3 mobo. Fastwrites/stuttering has forced my upgrade to PCI-e (as well as a smoking deal on the Evga nf41/7800GT). The new 7800GT owns the performance of my 6800GT 25%-30% faster. I have to admit that even playing FEAR at 1440X900 with most settings maxed out (all except AI/softshadows) There was never a point at which my 6800GT did not produce playable framerates and an overall enjoyable experience. I have to admit that ES:3 Oblivion might have forced my hand a bit as well . I feel that a nice pair of 7800GTs in SLi should take care of my gaming needs for the next year or so. If and I say If nVidia had fixed the stuttering issue I would probably be happily gaming along with my 6800 at 425/1200 for the next year or so, basically until the card died or failed to produce playable framerates in newer games. I also find it ironic that when using Morrowind FPS I can increase the view distance enough to bring even my new 7800GT to it's knees, can't do that with FEAR :eek: .

 

Goodluck AGP users, I hope the 7800GS is actually better than a 6800 Ultra,

 

JC

[vector7]

If and I say If nVidia had fixed the stuttering issue I would probably be happily gaming along with my 6800 at 425/1200 for the next year or so

 

I run the AGP BFG 6800GT at 420x1223. After I bought it I found the same problems on the NF2 Infinity. I just disable fastwrites and sideband plus force agp to 4X and the stuttering issue vanished on the N2 and on NF3 UT250 with no tangible decrease in video performance.

v7

[Guest shaolin95]

Again,...the stuttering "issue" is not a problem for all. My 6800gt plays perfectly.

[JCamaro]

Again,...the stuttering "issue" is not a problem for all. My 6800gt plays perfectly.

 

You are one of the lucky people not afflicted by the NF3 Stuttering issue, but all these people have.

 

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=32759

 

It was a problem for me, and now it's gone NF4+7800GT=no stuttering.

 

Cost me $500 CDN for mobo and vid card

 

after I sell my nf3 U-D and my 6800GT+NV-5 It'll cost me about 50bucks to have upgraded.

[Guest shaolin95]

I understand some are having problem but remember that only people with problems tend to post so while some are indeed having problems, I am sure that the majority are not. How many "my x video card works great with my x mobo" threads have you seen?

I understand your frustration but I just didnt want people the impression that buying a 6800 and nf3 is asking for troubles.

[JCamaro]

Shoalin,

 

You have a good point, Just like the s939 U-D. How many threads here say that it has too many problems/bugs etc. I have had no problems with mine from day one. The only issue I ever had with that mobo was trying to run KVR @ 1T and with new bioses you probably could especially since the KVR I had was micron -5b d chips just like the crucial I have now and just like the good Ballistix. I know that many people are probably running thier 6800's with nf3's happily, I could have too, with no overclock. Only a small percentage of people overclock at all. I had ZERO issues with my 6800/NF3 untill I tried to overclock. For the first bit, my 2500+ M in my nf2 Lanparty B was pwning my 3700+ SD in the s929 U-D both using the 6800GT.

 

I Agree AGP should be far from dead, the manufacturers disagree with me

 

And the neutered 16-pipe 7800GS for $389 cdn wasn't an option compared to full NF4+7800GT 20-pipe with the option to Sli later for $500 taxes in. Why else would I get an NF4 that wasn't made by Diamond Flower?

 

I've had 5 DFI mobo since 2000 now because of a smoking deal I'm gonna try out this EVGA er' Jetway mobo.

 

If the Expert was $150 cdn instead of $239, I'd probably have gone that route. It's not/ I didn't.

 

Let's see some 7800GS CO benchmarks please

I'm very interested.

 

JC

[Angry_Games]

I agree with you A-G. my son has a amd 2400 cpu with a 9700 pro and he can play all the games just fine, just tone down the bling.

my LAN server for the lab is a 2800+ w/9700PRO (and the vid card is the worst overclocker I've ever had so it stays stock)and even IT will fire up games and run them (though BF2 did pretty much require me to use 2GB of memory which the 2800+ can run easily at 2T or DDR333)

[Angry_Games]

http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42899

[Angry_Games]

Is the R520 basically a slightly faster R481GPU with faster ram? Or is the PCI X architecture helping out pace the AGP solution?

 

I've not done so much research into this yet because I have no X1600, X1800, X1900 etc cards, but from what I remember reading, they are faster gpu's with a couple of extra features (ie they are really only extremely fast 16 pipe cards but the gpu has some tricks to make it act like a 48-pipe gpu or something, but it is really not a TRUE 48 pipe gpu....you can tell this because the X1900 is pretty much only slightly better than the 7800GTX 512MB which is a true 24-pipe card, and the 7800GTX can still do some benches/games better)

[Angry_Games]

EDIT: Are the ATI R480/R520/R580 and Nvidia NV43/G70 PCI Express cards just faster stepping GPU's and memory versions of there R481/NV40 AGP siblings? This could be giving PCI Express an edge over the same brand AGP version cards not the architecture.

 

I've yet to see any PCI-E card that couldn't be matched by the same card in AGP

 

the architecture of the chipset of course is different, and that's what I think is making any difference up that you see. IE: a dual-channel 2Ghz 939 cpu might be 2% to 5% faster over the same single-channel 754 cpu of the same speed (i'm currently testing 754 vs 939 out right now in the lab so I'll have results soon), so you might see the PCI-E card getting 2% to 5% better marks

 

the PCI-E bus is great because of it's speeds (100Mhz vs 66Mhz for AGP), but more importantly it's ability to handle two-way traffic. I doubt we'll really see much need of this feature in vid cards other than SLI and Crossfire which helps the cards communicate to make sure each card is doing something that the other card isn't (ie both cards drawing the exact same scene instead of each doing their own section of the scene), but this can be bypassed by dongles or bridges etc.

 

But when you get into a SCSI or SATA RAID card, or some card reader or USB/Firewire or capture card, etc...the ability to have the periphial communicate both ways very fast (and plenty of lanes like a big giant freeway, so multiple devices or data streams can be done at once) is going to eventually be useful (and maybe we'll even need that for vid cards, who knows what the future holds).

[Angry_Games]

Actually a 6600gt modified, with drivers, can compare to a 6800U, noy just gt.

You can actually beat a 6800u with a 6600gt, a 6600gt with 128bit mem bus non the less.

 

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but you'd have to prove this to me something serious (and we are talking same cpu speed, memory, etc, just a 6600GT vs anything better) because I have 6600GT's and I have 6800 and 7800 cards and there is absolutely, positively, no possible way that a 6600GT (8 pipe, 128-bit bus, 128MB) will EVER beat a 6800GT (16 pipe, 256-bit bus, 256MB).

 

Not in agp, not in pci-e, not in anything.

 

if you try to compare a 1600Mhz cpu with 6800GT and a 2600Mhz cpu with a 6600GT then sure I suppose but that is not a valid comparison at all and should not even be brought up.

 

and there are NO drivers on earth that will make a 6600GT faster than a 6800GT or better.

 

none. (I can test this all day long with 754, 939, AGP, PCI-E, etc if you wish)