@ Angry; so what you are saying is that you would rather use memory running 3-3-3-8 @ 2T at DDR600, than memory running 2-2-2-5 @1T at DDR400?
I only ask because I don't quite understand your first statements at the top of the page and I am trying to understand better. I am sorry if this is a stupid question, I am still quite new to all of this.
basically what I am saying is...it really doesn't matter how you get there...as long as you get there
memory bandwidth is irrelevant on an A64 because the memory controller is built into the cpu...you can never really give enough memory bandwidth to the processor because it accesses memory directly...there's no Northbridge (memory controller hub) in between them.
and memory bandwidth doesn't really mean much in real applications like games and photoshop and this or that.
what matters is the cpu Mhz.
Look at my numbers...I got to 2750Mhz from 2000Mhz stock in a few different ways...
275x10 (DDR550, no divider)? No problem with TCCD memory and this cpu. It is loser timings, but those timings are easily able to let all of my TCCD memory do 275 (DDR550), without a divider.
275x10 (DDR180 divider)? No problem, as my BH-5 that can do tight timings can easily get me there at DDR180 and DDR166 and DDR150 dividers...with the tight timings, performance loss is practically nil when running a divider
300x9 (DDR600, no divider)? A little harder to get to, but with the right TCCD it is a little easier, but still a very real challenge to get 300HTT (DDR600) out of any TCCD...with it fully stable (not suicide screenshots to show off some benchmarks). The 300x9 I showed was fairly stable, but I never got to put it in the OC Database as it started taking too much of my time getting 300x9 fully stable =/
and look at 300x9...it is 2700Mhz
then look at 275x10...I can get this (as my cpu is easily capable of it apparently lol) with about 10 or more different kits of RAM I have. I can even get this easily from my OCZ PC4000EB 2x1024MB modules. Basically...as long as my RAM can do 275, my cpu can do 2750. And with 10+ kits of RAM able to get me there....I've got choices on how I want to get there (tight timings, but with higher voltage with BH-5? looser timings, lower voltages, but no divider with TCCD?)
compare the benches for 300x9 and 275x10 in the chart at the top...pretty much the same scores, with 300x9 winning a couple, but the 275x10 winning what I consider the more important ones for gamers (3dMark03 and 05). But even so, there's very little difference in them...and only 50Mhz difference in raw cpu speed.
then compare the BH-5 benches with 2-2-5-2 timings...even on a DDR140 divider, they are still as good as 275x10 and 300x9 TCCD...better with the higher divider (closer to 1:1) you use.
and this is the most important part I have tried to get you guys to get into your minds...
look at the difference between all of those different ways to get to 2700/2750Mhz on the cpu. You got advantages and disadvantages depending on which route you go
all for the sake of a couple percentage points difference.
to me, the important thing isn't the biggest number (to some, I guess they live and die by this stuff...but I pay money for good hardware to ENJOY it after I overclock the snot out of it).
the most important thing is the flexibility, knowing that no matter HOW I get to a clock...that I am guaranteed almost identical results, with up to 3% variation in real performance, depending on which way I choose.
A lot of users still think that high HTT (or FSB as we used to call it lol) is so damned important that they just have to hit 300x whatever. And they get bullheaded and sometimes downright nasty if they cannot achieve 300x whatever, as if it were their God-given right to do so just because they bought this or that, or a review said they would.
What this thread is about, is letting people know something important.
It really doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you get there.
Try going 5 or 6 different routes to work for a while. Once you maximize 5 different routes to work, you sorta realize that there is no 'shortest' route...it takes you within 1-5 minutes no matter which route you take to arrive from your house to work. Some routes might be really long and out of the way. Some might be really short but pretty hazardous (lots of roadwork? bad area of town where they hate nerds like you?)
Overclocking is something that you have to generally work very hard for to feel really justified, and truly proud of what you have done.
Some of you feel overwhelmed with joy just hitting 250Mhz overclock, because you never did such a thing before, and no amount of reading and asking really made you any less nervous the very first time you rebooted the machine after overclocking that 250Mhz to see if anything would burn up, blow up, spark up, bust up, or even turn back on.
Some of you only feel truly rewarded after squeezing out a 1000Mhz overclock from some poor Sempron or Mobile or 3000+ Venice, the whole time listening to it's cries like a damsel tied to a railroad and the 3 o'clock Eastern Pacific rumbling the tracks close by.
What you can be comforted in, is that if you have the right parts to do some overclocking, and can get overclocked, it really doesn't matter how you get overclocked...as long as you get overclocked.
its getting that cpu clocked that is important.
it doesn't really matter how you get there...as long as you get there
(unless obsessed with having to have the bestest most absolutest score to brag to your clan members about while getting your yak beat down by some South Korean Nat'l Team BF2 clan members to show them how tough you and your machine be lol)
this does not exonerate you from purchasing the right parts to start and finish this journey.
the first guy that comes back and says 'so this means I can buy some cheap-butt VALUE memory and blammo I am home free?'...I'm gonna boot him over the pigpen fence, landing hopefully face first.
This does not mean that VALUE memory won't work. I've seen plenty of users with it...and I have to say a majority of overclocking problems stem from this need to purchase the most complex, best overclocking motherboard on the planet, and then grab some VALUE memory that couldn't even make it as 'regular' memory (whining mostly).
I explained it a little harshly before I closed the other thread...but I am going to put it to you in clear, plain English, one more time, in hopes that you understand.
What I am going to tell you cannot be argued with, because there is nothing to argue. There is only the truth.
There is no other explanation, because there is only the truth.
No amount of arguing or even believing, no matter what I say, is going to change the truth of what I am going to tell you.
This board (Lanparty NF4 and NF3 250Gb), was never designed for running VALUE memory.
It never entered the designer's head to test for VALUE memory compatibility and overclocking ability.
It never once occurred to him to try overclocking with VALUE memory.
And I will tell you why.
Because these boards were DESIGNED, from the initial idea, to the final production, to be overclocking boards that nerdy little boys had wet dreams about.
These boards, when the designer dreamt them up, had never had anything of the low grade like VALUE, even enter the ionosphere of the dream.
These NF4's were out at the end of January of this year.
It was not until Oskar added the "DRAM Response Time" option in the 6/23 BIOS that many VALUE memories finally were able to work at least at stock speeds.
That's almost 6 months...why so long?
Because these boards were never designed to run VALUE memory of a low grade that couldn't even cut it as 'regular' or 'decent', or even 'fairly well, but not really even our signature nor ultimate line...not even our normal line really'.
The designer used PERFORMANCE memory, because we all know, you use PERFORMANCE items to get maximum PERFORMANCE.
Notice I did not say 'the most expensive memory'. Because the OCZ BH-5 2x512's that were $119 at one point on Newegg for the 1GB kit, would do those 2-2-5-2 timings @ 250, or 275 on a divider, just like teh GEIL ONE BH-5's, the GEIL Ultra-X BH-5's, the OCZ 4000VX, Mushkin Redline...as were the $155 OCZ Plat rev2 TCC5/TCCD modules...just at looser timings with lower voltages and no divider.
Expensive memory was not performing as well as good solid TCCD and BH-5. Some of you bought the most expensive BH-5's or TCCD's that you could find, others waited a little and bought yours at a stellar deal and got more than your money's worth.
But either way, you didn't buy the most expensive memory. You bought stuff that others were using and showing off as being great for them.
Those of you that bought VALUE memory, have found out the hard way...even getting it to run at stock speeds.
A very small few of you were even able to get your VALUE memory to overclock decently.
A couple of you showed some other guy in another forum using VALUE memory claiming that it was just as good as the more spendy PERFORMANCE memory and the even more expensive PREMIUM memory.
If you broke down our Lanparty board to any other board...there are some significant aspects that probably 99% of you don't know, that makes a huge difference in why they overclock so well, but are so picky about hardware.
Most of you know that Hynix modules don't work so well, and others have real mixed luck with 1GB kits of Ballistix or Infineon.
This is because the designer, at the time of him dreaming up this board that everyone wanted, wanted to make a board that was so good as to surpass all expectations in the overclocking community for it's ability to overclock.
To do that, you have to make some choices. One of those choices was to optimize the board for the two most popular types of memory...BH-5, the old standby that was making a comeback, and this new TCCD, that was incredibly flexible at low voltages.
To make TCCD run as good as it does, it required modifying the design to where hynix would not do well at all for overclocking. This was a sacrifice that, in my opinion, was done correctly.
This and other decisions all added up to one thing...the board was a freakin monster when you overclocked it with some decent TCCD or BH-5 (or even CH-5).
I don't think once, one time ever, did the designer even have any thought of VALUE memory. In fact, I remember when mentioning to it about the complaints from users trying to use VALUE memory, he was as much at a loss as to why anyone would put VALUE memory in a PERFORMANCE board to OVERCLOCK and MAXIMIZE, as I was in having to tell him lol.
It was like two old women sitting around complaining to each other "well why the hell would you put VALUE memory in this board? You bought this board to OVERCLOCK! That is what it was DESIGNED for!"
Finally, after we finally decided that we'd lost the battle (too many people whining that 'boo hoo these boards won't run my cheapo VALUE memory or psu') of trying to explain that these boards were never DESIGNED for VALUE anything...their ONLY DESIGN was to overclock the crap out of good TCCD and BH-5 and possibly some other decent memory...we got the designer to figure out how to make this cheap VALUE stuff run correctly....when it was never designed to run such memory.
The moral of the story is....
you might be able to get there in a Honda Civic...but your Honda Civic really wasn't designed to do Baja 1000 runs at top speeds.
now please people.....I am just as big of a dorky nerd as all of you (whether you admit it or not lol)
And I surely like to see myself get crazy good good scores on my benches when I am overclocking and fooling around or building a personal machine.
But in doing this every single day for the last 3 years with multiple machines and kits of memory and psu's and this and that and the other...there's one thing I think I have got a lock on....
and that is
with the Athlon64 cpu, and some decent memory, a decent power supply, and of course a decent vid card...not the most expensive crap you can find either...you can make it outperform even the most expensive crap you can find lol.
And if you show me 275x10 with 10% higher benchmarks....am I gonna go 'oh no i got to go fix my low weak girly benchmarks'? No, I am going to continue playing F.E.A.R. and Call of Duty 2, and Quake4, and Age of Empires III etc, because my rig works just fine.
But your 275x10, with the same hardware I am using, will be within 3% of mine, with it really being closer to .2%-.5%
This obsession with the greatest, biggest, giantest (? lol) benchmark scores is sorta worthless. For some, if that is what they want, then great.
But most of us don't have a lot of money to keep buying parts until we get the 'premium stepping' etc. Most of us just want to dabble with it and get to a certain level that we are comfortable with, then get the hell on with our installing of games and porno and music and movies and applications.
If you got to have the most most most out of it all the time....then this whole thread is not really for you, because you aren't interested in seeing results that show 2750Mhz is 2750Mhz just about any way you slice it. You want to argue it to death that your way is the better way and my way is the weak girly way and that isn't true for the majority of us.
And we aren't really interested in hearing how you can tighten your timings down to 1-1-1-5 at 438x6 and blow all of our scores out of the water and that it is the most important thing on earth is to show superior benches.
For the majority of us that are interested in this thread...we want to know...do I really have to be able to do 300x9? Can I do 275x10 and still get good performance widening my choices in what to buy or expect? Is there really that much of a difference in real performance that I am going to notice?
I just want you guys to overclock something, and enjoy it
I like to enjoy the fruits of my hard labors
my fruit at the moment is F.E.A.R. with 4x1024 @ 245x11 with an X2 4400 @ 2700Mhz, and a 7800GTX.
I worked for almost 11 days putting that mother together and tweaking it to the 2700Mhz plateau with all 4GB of memory in it...but most of the time was spent getting 2 dual-120mm radiators in a Stacker lol.
I'm down with 2700Mhz.
I want to go play now
I could probably get 2750, or possibly even 2800-ish...but that could take me a whole month or two...it took me 11 days to get from 2200 to 2700 exactly how I like it (and plenty of RAID-0 testing for the thread stuck at the top of the Off Topic section about RAID/hdd's)...for another 50-150Mhz I don't even want to think about it.
It doesn't matter how you get there really....as long as you get there...and have the right equipment to make the journey.
and most importantly
enjoy your stuff....you bought it to enjoy it...so take a break once in a while and enjoy it