Stock Speed Database DISCUSSION THREAD

[Praz]

The values in the entry with normal timings were chosen by the bios. With the exception of the 4 primary timings and DDS/DDDS everything was set to auto. Once in Windows I used A64Info to see the values and went back and manually entered them. The other entry is as tight as I could possibly get it. I think that entry says a lot for the memory and the board. Especially the board as tight as the secondary timings are. The normal entry should allow anyone to get up and going with relative ease. If the system isn't stable with those settings there's a good chance something is wrong with one of the components. I did the second entry for when a person finds settings that are stable and wishes to tighten them up a little. If there's a stability issue and any of the timings are tighter then I posted, it will be a pretty good bet that is where the problem will be. The normal settings would also be a good starting point for the Exert board.

[Guest LithoTech]

good entry Praz

but this is something maybe you guys aren't understanding that I want you to keep in mind

 

the whole purpose of the Stock Speed Database is to show other users your settings for 100% stock stable speeds using just about all default settings.

 

I am not bitching that you have your settings as tight as they are, but that should really be a secondary addition to an original post using the SPD timings that the memory has (and that memory surely doesn't have 00 TRAS lol)

 

Don't take this as I am violently angry...I just want to make sure you guys understand exactly what the primary purpose is of the SSDB...it's to show OTHER USERS how to get 100% stable using their hardware at stock settings.

 

Stock settings

 

means not as tight as you can wind them

 

however, once you put up a post with stock settings, then you should go ahead and drop a post with the same bits all tightened up but still at stock SPEED (not necessarily at stock SETTINGS).

 

Does this make sense to you guys?

 

Like I said, my post here isn't to insult or talk down to you or anything (expressions are tough with just text). Its supposed to be a simple explanation as to the primary nature of the SSDB, and then secondary posts with the same hardware all tightened up are like a little icing on the cake.

 

I've locked Praz's post not because it's crap (it would have been deleted if it was crap lol), but because that is just customary so no one can post behind it.

 

This discussion thread is to be used for all entry discussions (just in case anyone didn't bother to read through this thread or the rules to understand this lol)

 

So don't get mad, but I would rather see you (Praz) make a new post with all the STOCK SETTINGS, and then copy/paste your entry that I just locked in as a second post.

 

Let me know if you guys still aren't sure what I am asking for

 

(keep in mind I am more appreciative of those who put entries here than in the OC Database because if a rig ain't running at stock speed, it ain't worth a damn overclocked)

 

Understood completely now, perhaps not so much before.

 

Let me ramble a bit, and you can correct me if I am still offline a bit here:

 

For you two guys, it is probably very rare that you can't get a kit running right from the get-go, first boot and stock speed. For me, it is probably just luck that I haven't had difficulties up to this point, but I feel confident enough now that I can run any kit stock out of the box and pass P95 for any length of time providing the ram is OK. I've still a lot to learn about tuning ram, but that is for another forum.

 

Many people may be coming here because they can't get a certain kit to run error free at stock speed. Whether it is due to inexperience, an incorrect bios setting, or faulty ram, or something else, they may not know the cause and they simply cannot get the system stable at all!

 

So while most folks have a solid platform to stand upon in which to launch themselves from to a higher level -- think of it as a well built metal scaffolding, rock solid, we can jump up and down on it, and climb up to the next level.

 

Yet most people that come here looking for help or assistance are on a bamboo scaffolding laced together with damp rotting string, as soon as they try to move, one of the strings breaks and the platform crumbles. They are looking for that solid foundation, a platform that will support their weight!

 

This is something that I might have taken for granted while optimizing my "stock" settings.

 

So yes optimized settings are great, even at stock speeds, but they are merely a goal to achieve after first achieving a solid foundation of relaxed, default, SPD, AUTO settings.

 

Therefore, I will post a new entry, pasting my original entry as a reply to it. I'll let you know here when I've done it.

[Guest LithoTech]

The values in the entry with normal timings were chosen by the bios. With the exception of the 4 primary timings and DDS/DDDS everything was set to auto. Once in Windows I used A64Info to see the values and went back and manually entered them. The other entry is as tight as I could possibly get it. I think that entry says a lot for the memory and the board. Especially the board as tight as the secondary timings are. The normal entry should allow anyone to get up and going with relative ease. If the system isn't stable with those settings there's a good chance something is wrong with one of the components. I did the second entry for when a person finds settings that are stable and wishes to tighten them up a little. If there's a stability issue and any of the timings are tighter then I posted, it will be a pretty good bet that is where the problem will be. The normal settings would also be a good starting point for the Exert board.

 

That little blurb might be really helpfull as a note in the entry itself.

 

This hasn't been discussed, at least I haven't seen any discussion on it, adding notations like above to an entry. I've seen a few very short lines or comments, in the OCDB, but in this case it is more verbose and helpfull. Food for thought!

 

_________________________________________________

 

More on your technique there Praz, for the normal settings chosen by the bios. I'm not sure how other people go about the routine of starting with fresh new sticks. My own personal method I came up with myself, with no help or suggestion from guides or discussion forums, I just sort of developed it from a logical progression of trial and error. I've never seen it suggested the way I do it, other than in your above note.

 

I do it basically how you describe above, with auto settings. I used to wonder if these settings were dictated by the SPD of the ram, or the BIOS. If left on auto, then increasing the HTT, the settings will automatically adjust. I thought this was a little elaborate for SPD, and just assumed it must be the BIOS that is taking charge. I am correct?

 

I found this extremely helpfull, even if the settings were maybe not very good, it allowed me to see which settings needed to be adjusted as speed was increased. It was a very usefull learning tool for me, finding similar comparrisons within OCDB's is next to impossible.

 

It also led me to think of how different versions of the BIOS may handle this. I am still running the BIOS that shipped with my mobo, but am very close to flashing to 704-2BT -- I will probably make the switch right after I get a stable setting with 4 sticks of these Centon, to compare what they do under the different BIOS. Of course, I may have to flash sooner if 623 doesn't play nicely with them.

 

Just for reference for future readers, and perhaps further discussion relating to your specific routine with the Redlines, here is the routine I use:

 

With old sticks installed, I set everything to auto, and I mean everything except the settings that are enabled or disabled etc. I set the voltage to the lower value of the new ram's spec. CPU and system at stock speeds.

 

I then make sure I'm booting from CD, and that I have memtest in the CD drive. I double check my voltage and auto settings, triple check my voltage, then I save and exit, and shut down. Note: if the previous ram will run on the same voltage as the new ram, I'll reboot into the bios and check the settings before switching the ram.

 

Installing the new ram, I boot to CD and let memtest loop all. I'll check in memtest the basic values for the ram's settings, the primary timings are on the main screen but you can access some of the secondary timings by going into the advanced menu.

 

The exact keypress combo should be:

 

C

9

5

then 1 to 8

 

I've noticed discrepency with these values when finally getting to XP and checking A64info, but most of them are correct and at least you have an idea where you are at while running your first loop of memtest.

 

From this point, assuming everything is OK, it is just a matter of booting to XP and checking A64info. I take a screenshot of it and print it out, transfering this settings to the first column in my first BIOS worksheet.

 

Back to the BIOS, I begin to take the ram off auto. I only take a few settings off at a time, testing with memtest each time, usually only test 5 and maybe test 6. I've run into problems before by changing all the settings off auto at once, no idea why, but it happens. I start with only the primary timings, then the secondary, then page two of the genie.

 

If all is still OK, I'll then begin to tune the ram to what I've found it most commonly runs at via the OCDBs. Again, only one or two things at a time, and a quick test 5 x 20 passes.

 

It doesn't take long to get to a decent point that is acceptable enough to try a P95 run. I prefer to proceed with that before further tuning so that I know I am XP stable before wasting a lot more time in memtest. This is why I may have another relaxed entry to post for these Centon's, it would be normal routine for me to run through several before achieving the final.

 

Anyway, that is quite enough typing for now. I keep getting pulled away from this because of work, so I best put this away and get the work done with my full attention. It is hard though, I find the subject facinating, especially ram and clocking ram. Reminds me of my old desktop publishing days when I developed an interest in typography and fonts.

[Angry_Games]

So yes optimized settings are great, even at stock speeds, but they are merely a goal to achieve after first achieving a solid foundation of relaxed, default, SPD, AUTO settings.

 

you've hit it on the head

 

if you can't get a system stable at the SPD/default settings, it's kinda useless to try and optimize it or overclock it from there

 

this is why the very first entry should always the 100% pure defaults

 

then a secondary entry on the same thread can be made with any stock speeds (ie 200x cpu multi) where you have tightened/optimized the DRAM config

[Angry_Games]

That little blurb might be really helpfull as a note in the entry itself.

 

This hasn't been discussed, at least I haven't seen any discussion on it, adding notations like above to an entry. I've seen a few very short lines or comments, in the OCDB, but in this case it is more verbose and helpfull. Food for thought!

 

notations within an entry are not necessary and generally frowned upon not because they are bad or stupid but because the entry itself is merely an instruction manual to getting a particular setup stable using stock speeds and default settings.

 

think of it this way...if you have to EXPLAIN how you got stock speeds...well...

[Angry_Games]

PS: this discussion thread is what notations and discussions are for

 

if people would stop being lazy and use the "Search Within This Thread" function....they could find that you have added notation/discussion or they could simply ask here "how did you get that in your entry?" and you could then discuss with them how it was done.

 

The DB entry itself though is to remain free of discussion and purely to be a rigid set of settings.

 

This discussion thread is to be the place to discuss the how and why etc of particular entries.

 

It makes the info in the DB entry itself much more clean and organized

[Praz]

The 4 primary settings come directly from the SPD. The other settings are adjusted on the fly by the bios based on info from the SPD. I test basically the same as you with the following exceptions. I run Memtest from the bios. I almost always enter the 4 primary timings manually. Sometimes the manufacturer programs lax values for better motherboard compatibility. Usually the only time I run a full test of Memtest is for initial verification of the memory. After that when I change settings I'll let it go through tests 1 and 2 and maybe 5 (depending on what settings I have changed) for one pass each before I boot into Windows. For actual memory testing once I start changing values/overclocking I rely on Memtest for Windows. MAL/RP I usually adjust last because the DFI bios is so good at setting these values (although loose). Two of the first settings I go after is DDS/DDDS. The bios is terrible at these two once the system starts being overclocked pretty heavy.

[Guest Timmay]

Hey A_G I just want to make somthing 100% clear, I have the ram in my sig and I'm just about ready to make a post, do I just create my own thread and pop everything in there and then you lock it? Or do you creat the post and put my info in there for me?

[Praz]

When I did mine last week I created the post and uploaded everything and then A_G locked it.

[Guest Timmay]

Awsome, I also notice that you did one entry with auto settings and then another with Set settings...

[Praz]

I thought by doing auto and tight that would give a range of values to work with. I don't know if you've read any of the discussion about this but if you are going to post with tight timings do one with auto or loose settings first. Happy_Games said he doesn't have a problem with it being done like that.

[Guest Timmay]

Well I've made my post here, can someone please just check to make 100% sure its all a.o.k.