Smoken Joe Posted September 9, 2005 Posted September 9, 2005 Those who live in the past have no future. Errrrrrr and you want this board because it supports your old dated video card? Does this make sense to you? Do you see any new AGP video cards coming out? Why get a board that supports it if it isnt needed for upgrades? The target buyers are going to be problematic if a person is to stubborn to upgrade their video card think they are going to get a decent PSU or Memory to go with the new chipset? :shake: I can certainly see why AG would not want to deal with that! :tooth: A whole new world of people complaining how their 300w PSU should work with any system. Save up untill you can get an entire system that you want and dont accept stop gap measures. Fix it right the first time or leave it. I repeat READ this thread I like the idea of a new player in town I wish them the best of luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creig Posted September 9, 2005 Posted September 9, 2005 Errrrrrr and you want this board because it supports your old dated video card? Does this make sense to you? As a matter of fact, yes, it DOES make sense. PCI-E offers ZERO performance increase over AGP. If you benchmarked two identical cards, one AGP and one PCI-E, you would get the same numbers from both. PCI-E is simply a more versatile interface than AGP. Just because a video card is PCI-E based doesn't mean it's going to be fast. Would you care to see some benchmark comparisons between a PCI-E X300SE and an AGP X800XT PE? The X800XT PE will wipe the floor with the X300SE. You think that an X800XT PE is an "old dated video card"? It's roughly the fourth fastest video card you can purchase at the moment. Even a system with a fast Socket 939 processor is going to be CPU limited at resolutions below 1600x1200 with this card. Other current fast AGP video cards are: Nvidia 6800 Ultra Extreme 6800 Ultra OC 6800 Ultra 6800 GT OC 6800 GT 6800 OC 6800 ATI X850 XT Platinum Edition X850 XT X850 Pro X800 XT Platinum Edition X800 XT X800 Pro X800 These can all still be considered fast video cards. And think on this: There are MILLIONS of people out there who own one of the above video cards who would benefit from having an easy upgrade path with an AGP/PCI-E combo board. Why do you think other chipset makers have tried to make an AGP/PCI-E chipset work? It's because they realize the potential market size for such a product. I've visited a LOT of various website forums and each one has many people who want an AGP/PCI-E solution that doesn't compromise the performance of either. So there's obviously a good sized market out there and the M1695 is the first decent product that caters to it. Just because it comes from ULi doesn't mean I'm going to dismiss it without giving it a fair shake. Guess who's the only company making the southbridge for ATI's new Crossfire motherboards other than ATI themselves. That's right. ULi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoken Joe Posted September 9, 2005 Posted September 9, 2005 4th fastest? I think I see the problem now there are a couple of new cards you really need to check out the 7800GTX and 7800GT. http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2451&p=13 You can not compair two identical cards one AGP and one PCI-x because one will need to be bridged so one will loose performance and the card makers dont want to waste time and money on that anymore. (just like the MB makers) You have to realize that the card maker needs to sell thousands to break even when tooling up for that kind of bridge. Like it or not PCI_X is here to stay untell the next connector comes along that is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creig Posted September 9, 2005 Posted September 9, 2005 4th fastest? I think I see the problem now there are a couple of new cards you really need to check out the 7800GTX and 7800GT. http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2451&p=13 So you think that any card other than a 7800GTX/GT is slow? That's not even close to being an accurate statement. You can not compair two identical cards one AGP and one PCI-x because one will need to be bridged so one will loose performance and the card makers dont want to waste time and money on that anymore. (just like the MB makers) Yes, you can compare two identical cards (PCI-E & AGP). And no, the bridged one doesn't suffer any appreciable performance loss. Guru3D GeForce 6800 GT comparison performance wise the AGP8x is more then sufficient for the GT, on PCI Express it will perform almost exactly the same. Why ? Because the bottleneck here would be the actual graphics card and not your AGP 8x or PCI Express slot. you will not notice a performance in/decrease at all over the 16x PCI Express products, both are equal. You have to realize that the card maker needs to sell thousands to break even when tooling up for that kind of bridge. Like it or not PCI_X is here to stay untell the next connector comes along that is. For one, it's PCI-E not PCI-X. They're two entirely different interfaces. Secondly, if you'll look at one of my above posts, I've ALREADY stated that AGP is on its way out and PCI-E is the new standard. I'm not arguing that fact. What I'm trying to get through to you is that there are is already a HUGE base of people who own fast, EXPENSIVE AGP cards that still have a couple years of good gaming left in them. And it would make much more sense to buy an AGP/PCI-E Socket 939 board/processor than an AGP Socket 754 board because Socket 754 is being phased out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezag1000 Posted September 9, 2005 Posted September 9, 2005 Joe, probably 90% of the market still has a AGP card and board. This board will allow them to trasition more easily. They dont have to get a new card and board at the same time. Now if the performance is horrible, then I guess it shouldn't be relesed. But if the performance is the same as normal boards, or just under them, I think they should be relesed ASAP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEOAethyr Posted September 10, 2005 Posted September 10, 2005 There is no need for such a hybrid board dudes :. You probably allready got boards that do the job as is, why would you go spend the cash on something that's a pos anyways? Seems to me you want to save money, ie the idea behind this board, but it des'nt work out that way. You allready should have a cpu that's able and willing to play any pc game out there(2.4ghz or more amd), as for the video card, choose pci-e or agp depending on what you allready got! If you want the latest and greatest, don't got half @ssed about it and use a board like this :, doit right and pick the best board you can find. I know I should'nt be based on the past when it comes to computers, but ohwell. ALI is a pos, plain and simple, and this chipset shows that in my book, a plain poor business decision. ATI board's south bridge eh? 'm not exactly looking forward to an ati chipset either.... No offence to ati users. Especially if it uses an ali chip lmao. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wodan Posted September 10, 2005 Posted September 10, 2005 If you want the latest and greatest, don't got half @ssed about it and use a board like this :, doit right and pick the best board you can find Who said anything about latest and greatest? Some people don't have a lot of money you know... my friend is a perfect example : He has about $250 total to upgrade with since he has been out of a job for a bit and car payments are killing him, but he still wants to upgrade. He currently has an Athlon XP based system with a 9800pro. He can spend $70 on the ASRock board and a $150 on a AMD64 3000+ and thus gets a much better performing system at a very low upgrade cost since he can keep his 9800pro (the closest performing PCIe equivalent would be a 6600GT @ $140). And the many reviews for the board from very reliable websites have shown that it would be an excellent performing board with no performance degredation on the AGP interface. Then, down the line, when he has scraped toghether some more upgrade money from his new job, guess what, he doesn't have to go out and buy another motherboard, he can just go buy a better PCIe video card and plug it right in since the motherboard supports it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEOAethyr Posted September 10, 2005 Posted September 10, 2005 Yeah I know but you're not going to get much of a speed increase from a atxp to a at64. You can get more memory bandwith, that's the biggest thing, otherwise it's about the same. There's at64's with more l2 that's for sure but still, mainly it's mhz. Easier to oc probably then the atxp boards. I dn think there is anything wrong with the nf2 or nf3 chipset and the cpu's they use(depending of course, there's good ones for both). Sure there's allways gonna be better cpu's out there after a while. Then again there's going be better chipsets too. That 9800pro is allright for sure., and there's better agp cards too. You could upgrade the agp card and be just as happy I think, then agian if you and your buddy are willing to go for such a chipset, by all means find a baord. From what I hear is that the newer ali chips have problems in the pci-e area. I really dn if this is true, I'm not trying to spread anything or whatever. Given there history, acer chipsets normally blow. k6, p3 whatever. The only one I've used is the k62 one, had to ff the north bridge latency on it to get it working halfway normally, even still it was still slower in alot of ways then my intel p1 chipset with a p1 133 in it. Again, I rather have another chipset, via, sis or intel even. I'm sticking with nvidia myself, defently inpressed me with the ability to do 00 for latency, freaking sweet. I think this ali chipset belongs in oem. Abit makes oem...., I'm sure others do too. Hmm, I wonder... AOpen is Acer. Yet do they sell there boards with ali chipset on them? For the most part no(maybe there's a few, I dn). Now why in the world would they do that?! Maybe because they know that there parent company cannot make a decent chipset ? I just don't think it's good idea to make such a thing for tweakers or overclockers or whatever. It'll probably lose money. People stay away from bad names too, that loses money. Poeple in the oem don't know any better. Like I said before, give me a via instead, or a sis even, or an intel. Just not a ali chipset, I presonally will never touch another ali chipset. I don't want it to look like I know everthing about the chipset, I dn anything. So go and buy the thing if you want it so bad. I'm defently out of this thread lol, I've done enough argueing . You guys can do whatever lol. Err, shoot, my comments on the ali chipsets could probably considered to be bashing :. Ohwell, I don't mean it, to be polite, but then again... I dn like ali. I dn like ati either somewhat, but I try not to bash them. With ali though, I dn, they should be bashed maybe. Edit: Opps, forgot to answer this: Who said anything about latest and greatest? Well going from atxp to at64 is called going from latest to greatest. Oops, lol, to the latest and greatest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wodan Posted September 10, 2005 Posted September 10, 2005 Who said anything about latest and greatest? Who said anything about latest and greatest? lol... WHO SAID IT?!?! jk.. :shake: NEOAethyr, from what I understand, I agree with you and I have no gripes with what you said, you sound like you at least have an open mind towards the chipset even though you have had bad experiances with that company in the past and don't plan on ever having one of their mobos again. Its AG's earlier statements that bug me. So yea, just clearing that up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl pell Posted September 15, 2005 Posted September 15, 2005 we dont have any plans for a hybrid (AGP + PCI-E) board though (they always end up being crappy when you do hybrid designs) 4hrs after receipt of mobo/proc ASROCK 939DUAL-SATAII BIOS P1.10(7/13/05) A64 3700+ SanDiego, stock@200x11 4x512 Corsair CMX512-3200XL, DDR400@2-2-2-5(2T), Dual Channel AGP LeadTech WinFast 6600GT, NVO 17776, stock@300/900 Brief MemTest stable, WinXP install 3DM2001SE: 19,055 AQMark3: 7548/10494/55513 (55.51fps) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoken Joe Posted September 15, 2005 Posted September 15, 2005 4hrs after receipt of mobo/proc ASROCK 939DUAL-SATAII BIOS P1.10(7/13/05) A64 3700+ SanDiego, stock@200x11 4x512 Corsair CMX512-3200XL, DDR400@2-2-2-5(2T), Dual Channel AGP LeadTech WinFast 6600GT, NVO 17776, stock@300/900 Brief MemTest stable, WinXP install 3DM2001SE: 19,055 AQMark3: 7548/10494/55513 (55.51fps) Not bad. That is right up there with my P4 from 92 but does it over clock and is it truly stablewhen overclocked memtest prime etc? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.N.U.Fragman Posted September 17, 2005 Posted September 17, 2005 DFI is exactly what the ULI need actually.....it has the potential but has been left to crap boards as the Asrock.....and even in that case it does well......it has issues...some friends of mine actually has that board.......ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 .....something in the BIOS is teasing them to keep it below 235FSB atm......and the Vcore is depending on how much standard is for the CPU at the beginning.......but thats all.....all ASRock related...I really could see a large market for a DFI version ....And it dont seem that I am alone with that......dont judge them on their past...yes i am aware that they have been the worst chipset manufactor.....this time they have hit a goldmine.....help them get it out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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