Jump to content

Eeyore

Members
  • Content count

    24
  • Joined

  • Last visited

About Eeyore

  • Rank
    New Member
  1. Thanks mars. I looked under DISK DRIVES and SCSI/RAID CONTROLLERS but there was nothing there. Since you mentioned it again in your post I looked again; I hadn't thought about looking under IDE ATA/ATAPI. Sure enough it is there! In my further investigation I have found that even when I use the faster 3 drive SATA array and my 2 drive PATA to copy files between the two it is slower than using the 3 drive SATA array and a single PATA drive. Just a guess but the NV controller seems to be having trouble handling all of the drives and data transfer. Thanks again mars, Eeyore
  2. Eeyore

    P180 Afficianados

    LT, You sound like me. The larger the fan the better. The fan in front of the upper cage is 1.25" thick and just fits; my next 120mm fan is thicker (1.375") and it wouldn't fit. But the one I used is 110-115cfm and the thicker one was only 125cfm so it is just fine. One thing that surprised me was the Y. S. Tech fan I bought that I thought might fit in the front of the lower cage is only 1.00" thick and puts out 102cfm; I believe the airflow rating since I used it in the psu duct position and it is noisey when I turn it up all of the way. I don't know much about modern Papst fans but I own 4 80mm fans that I bought from a local electronics store that used to buy up used and surplus items. They had many fans and one time had some brand new Papst fans. They are ~50cfm, 1.5" thick and are heavy since they have metal frames. I have used 2 of them for quite a few years and always liked them. I will also have to go to their site and see if I can get one of their catalogues; it sounds like there could be a lot of useful info in it. What is even better for me (since I was able to use my nibbling tool more easily) is that it is not a true slot but just an extension of the cutout in the metal bracket. And it does work well without causing any problems; just like going through the unused portion of the bracket when you have a 92mm fan mounted except you can keep the 120mm fan and its increased airflow and lower noise. Yes, there are two rivets under the sliding plastic covers and two on the bottom of the chassis. They are just common aluminum "pop" rivits that are very easy to drill. The best way to drill them is to use a drill bit that is a little larger than the head of the rivet, place the drill bit in the hole in the head and using a low speed (if your drill allows it) put a minimal amount of pressure on the rivet while drilling. If you go to hard and fast it is easy to drill through the chassis also which means you would have to drill out all of the holes to take a larger rivet. And they are also easy to replace; I have a cheap hand tool that I bought years ago at a hardware store and the rivets are also easily found in most hardware stores. I think I looked at the Shark on the internet but decided it wasn't for me; probably a lack of drive bays. But I have seen that many people on this site use it and many have recommended it to people asking about which case to buy. If you get one let me know what you think about it. My system is still up and running but I am now fighting with another problem. When I added the 4th SATA drive to my RAID0 array the speed dropped. And I created a 2nd PATA drive to create a 2nd RAID0 array to use for my backup drive. But even with the faster 3 drive SATA array feeding the 2 drive PATA array I have found that doing a True Image backup takes much longer than it did when I was using the 3 drive SATA array feeding a single PATA. I have a thread started in the NF4 chip forum concerning RAID0, multiple drives and the NV RAID controller chip. And tomorrow my ISP is supposed to be switched. This could be fun; one company starting service, another stopping service and neither one will probably take responsibility if things don't work! I'll talk to you again when/if I get back on, Eeyore
  3. I thought that the 4th drive might be "weak" or have some sort of problem also. So I created an array using 2 of the "good" drives and the 4 drive using the same setup as before; 64K stripe and 16K clusters. The new array also shows an average 140MB/s read speed so I guess it is not the drive. And I have five partitions with about 1/3 of the space filled with data. I also ran ATTO with the settings indicated in the thread you provided; using the 3 drive array. Sorry I can't provide a screen shot; I'll have to learn to add them to my posts. ATTO shows between 400-450MB/s read speed in the 256-1024KB transfer size. But in the message from jaquestraw he indicated that he had the read cache disabled; I tried finding where I could disable the cache but I didn't have any luck. Any help in finding where to disable the cache would be great. Another thing I did at the same time as creating the 4 drive SATA array was to create a 2 drive PATA array using the NV controller (I don't have a SilImage chip on the Ultra-D). I am going to try removing the 2 drive PATA array and trying the 4 drive SATA array without the second array activated.
  4. Over 6 months ago when I purchased my Ultra-D I also bought 2 WD 250GB SATAII drives planning on using them in a RAID0 array; I had RAIDed on my Soyo motherboard using Maxtor 120GB PATA drives with good luck. So I began by installing 1 of the WD drives and checking the speed with HD Tach3; it gave me a reading which I don't remember. I added the 2nd drive and HDT indicated that the speed had increased noticeably; again, I don't remember the speed. About 1-2 months later I added a 3rd WD drive and, according to HDT, I received a good increase; HDT indicates that I am getting an average read speed of 142MB/s and burst of 260MB/s. However, when I add a 4th WD drive that I purchased a few days ago HDT only shows an average read of 118MB/s but a burst speed of 285MB/s. I remember that the Soyo motherboard used a HighPoint Technologies controller chip and had the same type of problem when going from 2 drives to 3 drives. It seems, from my reading, that many RAID controller chips (generally the cheaper ones) have this problem; they just can't handle the extra tasks involved with controlling more drives. Is this the problem with the nVidia controller chip? I thought that maybe the 4th drive had some defect but the WD diagnostics don't indicate this. Has anyone else experienced this problem and hopefully found a solution? Eeyore
  5. I am currently running 4 x 250GB WD in RAID0 on the NV controller. I may go back to using only 3 since HD Tach now tells me that the average read with the 4 drives is 118MB/s while it is 142MB/s using 3 drives. I am still looking into the problem; it could be that the new 4th drive has a problem. Eeyore
  6. Eeyore

    P180 Afficianados

    LT, Sorry for not replying in a timely manner. I had planned on starting my mods last Wednesday but then I found out that one of my fan shipments had gone out when it was supposed to. I thought the shipment would be here Friday but then all of a sudden it turned up Thursday. I needed to go out for some small shrink sleeving and leds; I also stopped for a haircut. Since all of our strictly electronic shops are no longer in business I headed for our local Radio Shack; it has closed. I went to the next closest; it was also closed. I didn't want to drive to San Diego (30 miles) or San Marcos (15 miles) so I headed for my local hardware store; on the way there the power steering hose came loose on my Acura RSX-S and I almost hit another car. Luckily it was only a loose bolt; I tightened it and added steering fluid. I drove to the hardware store, added more fluid and then went in. They didn't carry the shrink tubing. My last chance was the local Home Depot that I would pass on the way. I got lucky and they had a small plastic envelope of cut pieces which was good enough; of course they didn't carry leds. When I got home I called around to see if I could find someone that could "steam clean" my engine compartment and remove all of the steering fluid that had sprayed around; I don't want it to harm the paint and rubber. I couldn't find anyone so I ended up with my garden hose in the driveway; I sprayed for about 10 minutes and then gave up. My attitude at that time was not good so I decided not to work on my system. On Friday I began my experience. I removed everything from the case but the psu including the bezel. I managed to find a green and a red led so I worked on the bezel first. I popped off the power led and the #1 hdd led; they are just standard 5mm round leds that lay in holes in the bezel and acrylic holders with a clear adhesive over them. The adhesive looks like white wood glue; I have a small bottle of general purpose glue that looks the same so that is what I used to put them back. I now have a green power light, red hdd #1 and blue hdd #2. I put the bezel aside while the glue set. Next, with the bezel off, I had free access to the bracket in front of the lower drive bay so I drilled out the pop rivets. In looking at the area I decided not to put a fan in that position. To mount a fan I would have had to screw it to the perforated front and then I would be unable to use the filter since it has plastic tabs that protrude into the case. I riveted the bracket back on and worked on removing the perforated sections of the case in front of the upper and lower drive bays. I removed all of the perforations except for those required to hold the filters on. I also replaced the fan in front of the upper bay with a higher output fan (115cfm vs. 80cfm). The new fan was .25" thicker (1.25" vs. 1.05") but it does fit. Then I tackled the fan/brackets in the middle of the psu duct. I removed the fan and plastic bracket and played with putting a 92mm on it. I didn't like that solution; the fan attachment would have been flimsy and the large opening remaining would need to be closed. If the opening was left there would be a tendency for the air to travel backwards through the opening if there was any back pressure. In looking further I noticed that the metal bracket that holds the plastic fan bracket and blocks the majority of the duct (except for the fan hole) has a lot of material on either side of the plastic fan bracket. I drilled out the rivets and removed the bracket where I could work with it more easily. I cut a "slot" (about .75" x 2.50") in the metal bracket on the far side of the fan; the gap there allows the cables to be run along side of the 120mm fan/bracket. I used the 120mm, 105cfm fan that I had been waiting for and it works great. And since I wasn't going to be using the rear sliding slot I removed the plastic cover and taped over the slots in the metal. This left me to assemble the system. I did find that with 6 hard drives, 2 cd/dvd drives, a floppy drive, fan controller and motherboard there is no good way to route the cables; there are just too many power, data, led, switch and other cables. Especially when I found that the lower drive bay has to have the drives oriented in one certain direction if you are filling it; when I had only 3 drives I had them oriented upside down for easier routing of the power and data cables. But the 4th drive could not be installed if the drives were oriented that direction; when I turned them over it totally messed up the SATA cabling. The 2 PATA drives have a similar problem. The routing is not what I had hoped for at all. It was late so I decided to wait until Saturday to hook up the system and power it up. Push the power button and NOTHING! No fans or drives starting. The only thing I could see were the amber memory power light and the amber light in the lower left corner. I checked all of the connections again; plugged and unplugged but nothing. I spent about an hour fiddling with the system. Psu or motherboard was the question I asked so I got out my old psu that I had replaced with the OCZ. I hooked it up and, again, nothing! I was upset and had the urge to get my sledge hammer from the garage and work on the system with it. I calmed myself down and just left the system alone and I spent the day doing other things around the house. Sunday morning I removed everything from the case but the psu. I placed the motherboard next to the case/psu on a piece of cardboard and plugged the psu into the motherboard. I had the memory installed and I plugged the cpu fan into the motherboard header; I had nothing else attached. I pushed the start switch on the motherboard and was relieved to see the fans spinning, the error lights illuminate and finally the error beeps began. Good news! I then started to put the system together one piece at a time while checking for power each time. I finally got it up and running. Of course that was not the end of my problems. When I finally booted up I discovered that each of the 2 PATA drives were only showing 32GB of storage space; they are 250GB Hitachi drives that I want to set up as RAID0 to hold my backup image. I currently backup over 260GB of information, which I know is ridiculous, and one 250GB drive was not enough. Now what did I do? After checking the drives with the Hitachi software I finally remembered that when I was routing the data cable to them I had to switch positions with them to get better cable flow. And I had re-jumpered them; it turns out that with the Hitachi drives you can have a jumper setting that restricts the storage space to 32GB. Since I hadn't worn my bifocals when doing the jumpering I evidently couldn't read the label on the edge of the drive that shows the various configurations possible. I finally was able to set up the RAID0 array and format it; just the formatting took a couple of hours. Then another 5 hours to backup up to the new array. I now have to delete my boot array and create another which includes the 4th SATA drive that I have added. Then install the OS from the image and I am done! Until Wednesday when I change ISPs. Then I have to reconfigure to use the new ISP. It never ends. However this time I may have reached my limit; I was totally frustrated a couple of times in modding my system. I don't know if it is age or am I just getting tired of working with computers and need to find another hobby. Maybe I'll go back to fishing or shooting for awhile to see what I think. Later, Eeyore
  7. Eeyore

    P180 Afficianados

    LT; I do listen to music but sound quality is not that important to me; most of my listening is to old time radio programs that I get from the newsgroups. I didn't even know that the Karajan module was a problem in the P180 until I read it here; mine was already installed when I switched to the P180 and it didn't interfere when I placed the motherboard in position! Others that want to use the module and have interference problems generally just grind away a small portion of the fan frame; that is what I would have done if I had the problem. It turns out that the default pinout on the P180 10 pin connector is just fine for the Karajan; just plug and go. That is as far as the audio goes; I have microphones, don't use them and didn't test the front panel mic jack to see if it works or not. One thing though, since the P180 is short, I have to run the cable straight across the board either below or above the cpu heatsink. I already have the Firewire cable running the same way; I was planning on disconnecting it since I don't use any Firewire devices. Now I believe I will commit sacrilege and route both across the board; it must be OK though since your pictures show that you have the Firewire cable there! My main problems with cable are price and the requirement that you must also subscribe to cable tv service before you can get the internet cable. I don't use the local tv cable service and, even if I did, I wouldn't like to pay double the price I pay for the equivalent dsl speed. Assuming you have cable tv, the cable price for 4Meg service here is $50/month (with a premium for higher speeds) and 6Meg dsl is $28/month. Upload speed on the 6Meg service I am looking at is only ~700k but upload speed is not important to me since I very rarely upload any large files; email is about it. I was hoping that you had already added your front 120mm fan. As soon as I send this message off I am going to tear down my system and start on my mods; I have several deliveries scheduled today via UPS, FedEx and USPS with my components. One of the mods I was thinking about performing was the fan addition in front of the lower drive bay; I was hoping to see what and how you had done it. If the front 120mm fan addition is possible then I would probably remove the 92mm fan in the middle section altogether. If nothing else I will look at the area and see how I would do it; I am going to remove the bezel to see if removing the pop rivets might be an alternative to cutting. Removing the bezel will also let me see how the front panel led's are mounted since I don't care for the blue ones; I would rather have the more traditional red and green. Although I might leave one of the blue ones for the second hard drive activity light; not that I can use both right now but if I ever need to use the 2nd one it would be nice to have a different color. In the beginning of this thread I indicated how disappointed I was with case because of the higher temps. Beginning yesterday when I turned on my system, and continuing today, the temps of the cpu and pwmic have decreased about 4C over what they have been since I switched the case and psu. Our outside temp here hasn't changed; it has been getting up to about 90F for a couple of weeks. I don't know the reason. I did re-apply Arctic Silver when I had the motherboard out for the switchover; I have read that it takes a while for the AS to "cook" properly but I never noticed that happening before. I don't know why but I do like it; maybe this case will work. Well, it's time to nibble, cut, drill and otherwise hack up my case. I'll be back in a day or two, Eeyore
  8. Eeyore

    P180 Afficianados

    OG, I have never used cable; partially since I don't subscribe to cable tv but even if I did subscribe the cost is way too high. Where I live in Oceanside it is $/month and when I lived in Santa Ana a couple of years ago it was $60/month. No thanks. I have had DSL for a few years now and have only had one major problem. It was with SBC when they had a 3-4 day outage across most of there western areas. That was not the real problem. The real problem was with their customer support that is in India. When I called about the problem they went through their "ten step" program having you check various aspects on your computer. When those didn't work (about an hour later) I was sent to a supervisor (still in India) who went through some other steps (another amount of time wasted). Never was I told that the whole network was down. They continued to try and find a problems with my setup. Over the 3-4 days I sent from one support agent to another with no word about the outage. And one of the problems that the Indian support agents have is their reluctance to give up; when asked they to be switched to another level they take offense and it is very difficult to get them to transfer you to another agent. At the end of the whole process, just before the outage was fixed, it was decided that I needed to send my modem in for an exchange since it must be bad. I was going to box it up the next day but when I tried it the next morning I got right on. That it when I found out about the lengthy outage. Luckily the new company I am switching to has their support in Winnetka and they are supposed to be very good; this is from people on the DSLX forum on the BroadbandReports site. Overall I have had very good luck with DSL and I like the price. Now if I can just get 6Meg service I will be in heaven! Eeyore
  9. Eeyore

    P180 Afficianados

    LT, One other thing I hadn't thought about is the audio cable from the front panel audio/microphone jacks to the Karajan module. I didn't hook it up at the time I put in the motherboard but I am considering it now; there seems to be a question concerning the pinouts on the module versus the case cable connector. Especially since it has a 10 pin connector (supposedly meeting an Intel audio standard) along with 7 individual pins for use on motherboards with none standard audio connectors. It looks like you don't have the Karajan installed in your system; at least in doesn't show in your pictures. Have you ever had the module installed and had the case cable hooked to it; if so, how did you connect it? I want to use the front jacks but to do that I would also have to put up with a familiar problem. The audio cable on the case is short; it will reach the Karajan module but it has to go directly across the motherboard instead of being able to route it so that it can't be seen. Because of what you and others have said about fan changes (92mm from 120mm), adding the additional front panel 120mm fan, cable routing changes, my need to remove the front perforated areas, et al, I have decided to do more than I had initially planned on doing when I get the necessary fans and other parts that I ordered. I may also make the cutout and add a fan to the side panel but that is not really necessary at this time since the panel is easily removable and can be done anytime. Thanks LT for the extra work! I will begin this on Wednesday or Thursday depending on when the parts are delivered and who knows how long it will take. I also have to work around a change in my DSL service. I am currently with my local telephone company (SBC/ATT) on a promotional package; $28/month for 3Meg service. Since then the promotional pricing has gone down to $18/month but there is a catch. The promotional price is only for new customers; existing customers can only renew at a price of $39/month. I don't think so. So I am switching to another ISP that uses the same SBC/ATT telephone lines and is offering the same promotional prices since I will be a new customer with them. In addition, my telephone line may qualify for 6Meg service which is the same price as I currently pay for 3Meg service! I am hoping the line is good enough! But that means a hassle with both companies in switching over so I really don't know if I will be down or for how long. The new ISP has a "fast switchover program" that supposedly allows no downtime since they use SBC/ATT lines and work with them. But the DSLExtreme forum on dslreports.com has complaints from many people about their switchover process from SBC/ATT to DSLExtreme. So I may or may not be able to access this site during the next week or two. Be patient with me and my ISP/s. Eeyore
  10. Eeyore

    P180 Afficianados

    LT, Tell your wife that she takes great pictures and the large number are appreciated; you can find a view of just about every corner of your case. I know what you mean about using a large magnet when cutting steel. Before I assembled the new system I drilled two holes (using a small hole saw) in the motherboard "tray" so that I can remove the chipset cooler without having to remove the motherboard. There were chips everywhere! I buy fans the same way. If I see a good deal on a site then I will buy one or more probably two. I told you that I had ordered a couple of the Panaflo fans from SVC.com that I am planning on using in the lower fan mod. But then I got into the good deals forum on DFI Street and found a list of online stores that people like/recommend. I found the name of a site that I had used in the past but hadn't been to in 3 years or more. So I went to NexFan.com and ended up buying a 92mm Vantec Tornado (119cfm and LOUD) and a 120mm Y.S. Tech fan (100+cfm). I wanted a Tornado but the cheapest I had seen them was $15 and up; NexFan has them for $10. And the Y.S. Tech I bought because of the high airflow and it is only 25mm thick (1"). If I decide to place a fan in front of the lower drive bay the thickness (or lack of) will help it fit in; most high output 120mm fans are 38mm thick (1.5"). I will be waiting to hear how your mod for the fan goes. I don't mind not having the tachometer wire since most of my fans don't seem to read correctly in MBM anyway. I depend on the temperature readings and not the fan speeds for alerting me to problems. The Zalman fan controller is rated only to 7w max; and I found on the Zalman site that the two toggle positions do not have plugin connectors but small terminal blocks that require bare or tinned leads and a screwdriver to install. And the toggles switch between 5v and 12v for speed control. Even I don't have that many fans over 7w but the Tornado that I just bought is 10-12w; I really don't understand why the low output. That is why I said to check before you buy to make certain the ratings meet your needs. My Vantec is now 4-5 years old and is the 5.25" variety; I don't remember if they had a 3.5" version when I bought mine. I haven't had any trouble with mine and I have never heard any noise from it; of course I generally have so many fans that their noise would cover any noise the controller could make. No I haven't started a thread yet on the overclocking problems. I haven't had a chance to really work on it. But until I get my new fans I will spend time on the problem. Once I hit a wall with the problem I will start a new thread; as I said in an earlier post, the main reason I bought the new psu was to help me increase my oc. If I can't get my oc'ing speed up then the money spent on the psu was a waste; except for the fun (?) of installing it or course. And I also need to test the temp change when covering the front intake areas with cardboard; I already modified the door grills by removing every other slat with a coping saw. Please keep everyone informed as to your progress. And more pictures are welcome. Eeyore
  11. Eeyore

    P180 Afficianados

    LT, I see that we crossed posts. I was composing my last post as you were sending me yours. I use the clear CMOS jumper extension also as I indicated in my last post. I too have it marked to avoid problems but my extension is not sleeved. I tend not to go for looks in a computer as many people do. With me is almost "the plainer the better"; no exotic lights, UV connectors, side panel windows and such things. The extension is very handy. On the Zalman fan controller listed on SVC.com they have the 4 controls listed at 7w maximum; to me that is too low. Make sure that you check before you buy. As I said earlier my Vantec fan controller knobs project out from the front panel 1/2"; the back of the door is approximately 1" from the front panel of my fan controller when it is closed. I have plenty of room but maybe Antec made some changes to the door that affect this distance. Also there could be a problem with the positioning of GSes controller in its bay. All of the upper drives/controller mount flush with the bezel but my floppy drive protrudes about .1"; this is using the standard (and only) mounting position with the drive rails supplied. Perhaps his controller sticks out some; but it would have to be almost 1/2" to interfere with the door. Later, Eeyore
  12. Eeyore

    P180 Afficianados

    LT, Are you sure you have enough pictures to show everything? I love it; it's like I am at your place looking at the computer. I don't want to use the bottom 5.25" slot for drives; that is where I have stuffed my IDE cables for the cd/dvd and PATA drives. I ran them straight in from the IDE connector on the motherboard then run each out to the necessary drives; they are out of the way. I have thought about moving the cd/dvd drives to the top and the fan controller just below them. With the change in the lower fan and re-routing of the cables through the lower drive area I shouldn't have any problems with plugging into the upper drive since it sticks out much farther than the fan controller and the rest of the connectors get connected where they are now. The 2nd molex cable should also fit like it is currently. I'll also see what happens when I route the molex cables at the back of the case rather than in the front when I re-route them through the lower fan area. I think that I will still have to use the extender cable because of the depth of the fan controller connector. I will also have to re-route the fan output cables but that shouldn't be a problem; one of my orders from SVC.com had ~20 3 pin cables, extenders and converters. I can hook up any fan anywhere in the case. I might try your method of mounting the new lower fan except that I will probably add the two other mounting holes; they are only into plastic and the bracket will be outside the case. They won't take any time at all. I don't think I'll try the new front lower fan mod; to do it I would need the case empty. And, at that, I will look at removing the pop rivets instead; I am used to removing and re-installing pop rivets. Along with the re-routing of the cables away from the corner of the board it will also help me to get at the battery. Since I am having problems with overclocking since the case/psu change I have been trying different BIOSes which require removing the battery and moving the jumper to discharge the CMOS. The CMOS is not a problem because I put a 3 pin extension cable from the motherboard connector to the edge of the case with the jumper mounted at the end where it is easily reached. But digging around trying to get the battery out from behind all of the cables running in front of it was a task; it was hard enough in my old case with no cables running near it. The new cable routing will help immensely. You seem cynical about whether it was worth the money to change the routing. I am thinking along the same lines. I bought the new case and psu hoping to increase my overclock but now I find that I can't even get back to my old oc speed. Yep, it was certainly worth the $200+ dollars right? But I think the oc'ing excuse was just a way for me to buy some new toys and play with them. At least that is my story and I am sticking to it! By the way, in your pictures most of the fans are clear fans even in the stock positions. Did you change the fans that came with the case (mine are black) or are they the fans that came with the case? You mentioned that you hooked up the Firewire connection to the front panel. I did also along with the USB connections. I don't have any Firewire devices but I do use a flashdrive and the front USB ports are handy. My fan for the lower area is not due in until Wednesday so I won't be working on my case until then; thank goodness for the break. And then it should only take 5-6 days to re-route the cables (I hope not); cable routing is not my favorite task even though my favorite part of computers is working with the hardware. Especially adding new hardware; and we are back to the reason for the new case and psu. Give me new software and I generally couldn't care less. But I do need to work on my oc'ing problem so the time will come in handy. Eeyore Thanks again for all of the pictures; I am going to have to look at them more closely and see what other ideas I can gain from them
  13. Eeyore

    P180 Afficianados

    OG, You and LT are correct about the small doors. Once you both told me about how to remove them I broke out my bifocals (I normally only use my glasses when driving since the state seems to think I need them) and I saw the tab with the pivot pin. I pushed down on the door lightly and using a small flat bladed screwdriver I pushed down on the tab and the door came out. One warning to others that want to remove these doors; don't press too hard on the tab or it can be broken off! I used more pressure than necessary and the tab bent down slightly without returning to its normal position; I had to use an Xacto knife blade to move the tab back into position. Press on the tab slowly increasing the pressure until the door releases and no more! Now I can more easily remove some of the slats and see if it helps with airflow without having to leave them off entirely. And they would cover any hacking and cutting I do to the perforated sections although that shouldn't show too much since my cutting will allow the filters to stay on also. Thanks for door info. And where might you be adding these fans? I am going to do the 92mm from 120mm fan exchange in the psu duct that LT did. I just ordered 2 69cfm Panaflo fans ($3.00 ea) from SVC.com to use for that mod; I ordered one a couple of weeks ago that I am using on my XP-90 and it is doing a decent job. I would really like a Vantec Tornado (120cfm and noisey) but I can't see paying ~$15 plus shipping. I have to get my act together soon; I have ordered 3 times in 2 weeks from SVC buying a few items each time. The shipping costs are just killing me. And I am still planning on putting a fan on the side panel aimed at the pwmic/mosfet area of the motherboard; that is why I bought the second Panaflo. I still haven't decided what size fan I will use; 92mm or 120mm. I originally planned on the 120mm but it might be too large for the position I want to put it. When I get the fans and switch from the 120mm I am also going to try LTs method of cabling beside the new fan, into the lower drive cage area and then up through the small forward cutout into the main case area. I'll be waiting to see your pictures of your mods. I am always willing to steal other peoples good ideas. One other thing to say to those looking at fan controllers. I looked on SVC.com at the PCToy, Sunbeam and Zalman controllers that they carry. The PCToy looks just like my old Vantec and has the same electrical ratings (and just $8); 15-18w per channel. I think Sunbeam had one rated at 20w. But I don't like the electricals on the Zalman; the 4 speed controls are rated at >5w although the 2 speed toggles will carry much more since they are mechanical switches (I thought they were on/off switches). I have used fans that draw up to 10w so I certainly have a problem with the Zalman. Watch the specs when buying a fan controller. And check for plugin output wires instead of wires soldered into the pcb. That way it is easy to choose a cable of the correct length and connector type. Eeyore
  14. Eeyore

    P180 Afficianados

    LithoTech, My main problem with the length is due to the fact that I have the fan controller in the top 5.25" slot with 2 cd/dvd drives right below; the controller is only about 3" deep and that is where the molex power connector is (about 6" in from the back of the bay). I ran the 1st molex (closest to the psu) all the way up as far as possible; it would have had sufficient length if the device was a full sized device but I ended up needing a 6" extension to reach the contoller connection. I then came back down and plugged the 2nd connector on the cable into the upper drive in the upper cage. This lets me go straight over and plug the 3rd molex onto the motherboard and the floppy connector onto the motherboard. I tried plugging the 2nd molex into the fan controller and the 1st into a lower drive but then the 3rd molex and the floppy connector could not reach the motherboard. It works fine but I am a little (yeah, just a little) bit anal and would rather not have to use an extender. I did the same thing with the second molex cable; I plugged the 1st connector into the the cd/dvd drive just below the fan controller, the 2nd into the cd/dvd drive below the first, the 3rd into the lower drive in the upper cage HD cage and then into the floppy with the 4 pin connector. If I didn't need my floppy drive or if I wanted to use more extenders or even if I had a different motherboard the cabling could have been different. The SATA power cables were fine and plenty long enough. I use 4 SATAII drives and the extra cable fits nicely into the section below the lower drive cage. I did what you did with the SATA data cables but I worry about them slowly straightening because of the higher temperature and then hitting the fan blades. Since I leave my computer running most of the time I might not be home at that time to hear the sound of rubbing blades and cables. Just a minor problem. I had read elsewhere about putting a 92mm fan in the psu duct to replace the 120mm. Since I have my computer doing something right now I can't take the fan/holder out to look at it. Since the fan is smaller than the holder I would guess that 2 new holes would need to be added and the fan mounted with only 3 screws. If you position it to the side closest to the outside and towards the bottom then you could run cables either over the top or to the side of the fan. Is this how you positioned yours? That wouldn't help with my molex cable length problem but it sure would get rid of that bunch of cables over the corner of the motherboard! I only have a couple of 92mm fans in my junk box but they are only low output (~35cfm) so I need to go online and find something with more output; I would like to go with something like the Vantec Tornado but I don't want to pay $14-15. I generally pick up cheap fans when I browse the internet stores whether I need them or not. The cheaper ones are also generally use sleeve bearings which I like; they make less noise than the ball bearing types. Just last week I picked up two fans from SVC.com. One is a 92mm (60+ cfm) and the other an 80mm (~56cfm). I am using the 92mm on my XP-90 or I would have tried it to replace the 120mm. Especially since the Antec case manual says that the 120mm fan in the psu duct is rated at 60cfm at full speed; the other 2 that came with the case are rated at 80cfm. As far as putting another 120mm fan in front of the lower drive cage, how were you planning on cutting the intake bracket with it still in the case? And the distance from the drive cage itself to the front of the perforated grill (the perforated section is punched out from the surrounding section) is 1". The lower output 120mm fans are 25mm (1") thick; it would be iffy in getting a fan to fit. And you would need to attach it somehow or it would vibrate. I really wish I had an empty case to look at with the front bezel off. I see the pop rivets from the front and they would be easy to remove and replace but I can't really tell how everything goes together. There were a few posts here that told of someone that put a 120mm in there but when asked how it was done there was no reply. At this time I really don't want to empty my case since I am also having oc'ing since installing my motherboard in the new case with the OCZ psu. It won't overclock any where near what it did before in my cheap case and with a $25 psu (a CompGeeks product). Hoping to get a better overclock with the OCZ psu was the main reason for the change. I am afraid things might get worse if I remove the board and replace it; but then again it might get better. It's too bad I am a pessimist and not an optimist. This mod will have to wait until I do need to remove the motherboard. One of the first things I did was check the direction of the fans; the "fronts" are intakes and the "backs" are exhaust. I have the fans that came with the case set on high since I have the controller to set the speed. The only time that the temps are decent is with all of the fans on high. I hadn't thought about blocking the air on the intake side to see how it affects the temp. Thanks for the tip. None of my other cases had filters but a couple of times (this was before the Swiffer) I used the thin green or white scrub pads; they are like the green or white backside of a sponge but without the sponge material. But I always thought that they blocked too much air. Now I might buy some and do some testing with them as I will with the cardboard. And I will have to look at a Swiffer pad too since you say that they are electrostatic (watch them around sensitive components). If they are more porous than the scrub and electrostatic it would be perfect. Again it depends on how they affect airflow. Since my chipset has always run warm I put one of the Evercool units on but it did nothing for the temps even when it was in my old case. I tried reapplying AS; no help. I even lapped the VC-RE and that actually made the temp worse by about 1 degree. One thing that I noticed when I had PIII flipchip processors is that are were "convex" being higher in the middle. The chipset might be the same. When I had the PIIIs I lapped both the heatsink and the chip; it was always recommended that it not be done on the mod sites because it didn't have the metal case and was only epoxy. I did 3 of them with no problems; underneath the green coating on top was silver and when lapped with 2000 grit it looked like a mirror. But the NF4 chipset can't be removed to lap it easily and can't be replaced if damaged; trying to lap it in place even causes me to shudder. So before I lapped the VC-RE it may have been slightly concave and the chipset convex so they fit together better. Now the chipset is convex and the cooler base is flat; just a guess as to the increase in temp after lapping. Another thing I have noticed since swithing to the P180/OCZ combo is that my GPU is running a degree or two higher also; this is pretty much at idle since I don't game and haven't been running anything that is video intense. My last case was a no-namer from CompGeeks that had a 120mm (100cfm) fan in the front (after I modded an 80mm mounting position) an 80mm (60cfm) in the rear and an 80mm (60cfm) on the side blowing onto the motherboard; the side fan was stock position and just happened to blow right onto the pwmic chip and mosfet heatsinks. The side fan did a great job on cooling this area and helped increase air and pressure into the case in general. The exhaust fan in the rear and the two 80mm fans in the psu tended to overwhelm the stock intake fans and create a negative pressure in the case. I never like that since it tends to draw air/dirt into the case through whatever holes there are; it always seems to be through the floppy and cd/dvd drives. Just before I bought the P180 I had my floppy quit on me; when I removed it there was about 1/8" of dirt/dust coating the bottom. Luckily CompGeeks had one on sale for $6 so I ran over and bought one. Did I mention that I live approximately 1/4 of mile from them and that is why many of my components are from them? With the case and psu from CompGeeks I could run the fans at half speed and get better cooling than I am getting now with the P180 and since the fans were not running at full speed they were quiet. As I said in an earlier message I would also go with the Stacker 830 or even the original Stacker. I haven't looked at the Sunbeam but I will when I get done with this post. The main things I was looking for in a case was plenty of fan positions, enough drive positions and no futuristic/odd front panels. Some of the cases had oddly curved front covers and they would have interfered with the knobs on my old Vantec Nexus fan controller; the Vantec has knobs that protrude 1/2" and fit just fine behind the door. The P180 has most of what I wanted but it is much smaller internally than I want and I think that I would rather have a conventional top psu mounting position; especially with the Ultra-D and its connector positions. That might change once I adapt to the different position; I am a geezer and have trouble adapting to new things (lol). As I have been composing this post I have been looking inside the case and have already come up with some cabling improvements I might be able to make after reading your post. I currently have my molex cables running along the near side of the drive bays and not the far side as I have my power cables. I did that mainly because the 2 PATA drives and the 2 CD/dvd drives have their power connectors on the near side. I can turn the PATA drives over but the cd/dvd drives have to stay as they are. If/when I change out the 120mm fan for a 92mm and route all of my cables out of the lower drive bay area I think that I can then run them along the back, still be able to make the connections needed and get them out of view. Thanks for the helpful info. If I do cut the perforated sections behind the doors I will leave the slots/squares necessary to hold on the filters and still have sufficient support for them. The main thing I like about the Zalman fan controller are the two toggles that let you turn off the fans entirely. My Vantec doesn't have that capability but then I don't know if I would ever use them; I just turn the fans all the way down and they can't be heard and still provide some airflow which never hurts. One other thing I would like in a controller is more fan positions. I think I saw one that would control six. I now have to run more than 1 fan in some controller positions; such as the two fans on the back and top. No big thing really. It sounds easy enough to post images. I might try it when I get a little further on. Oh-oh, I shouldn't have gone to that site you gave the link to. I can't resist all of the "fiddly bits" as Slarvebartfast puts it in The HitchHikers Guide to the Galaxy. When I finally post this I will be spending the rest of the day perusing the site. Thanks for all, Eeyore
  15. Fan hole sizes are not necessarily the same size or shape. Some fan manufacturers recommend round holes (of a certain size) for both intake and exhaust, some recommend an octagonal pattern for both intake/exhaust and, at least one I know, uses a round hole or an octagonal depending on whether the fan is being used for intake or exhaust. The higher the output of the fan the more critical the cutout. An incorrect hole size can reduce total flow, back pressure, smoothness of flow and amount of fan noise. Of course with the precision that I cut my fan holes it really doesn't make much difference; nibbling tools and large files don't allow fine work. Eeyore
×