redj41

Further testing and I'm definately stable at 1.375v on cpu. just fyi. Still testing for lower.

You will definately need a good air cooler. My E8400 ran a little over 4.3 (I think) on air with a V8 in a coolermaster HAF 932. On H20 I'm running 4.05 all day, and stable at 4.5GhZ, so it is definately capable. You may need to up your voltage some (fsb and cpu) from stock. Leaving the voltage on auto doesn't work too well on most motherboards when doing any serious overclocking. I run 1.475 volts on CPU (although I'm pretty sure it could be a lot lower, just haven't played with it yet), 1.3 volts FSB, and a slight increase on my north and south bridge voltages. That's on a XFX 780i. Different boards and chipsets will vary. Best bet is to increase overclock in small amounts, upping voltage as you go. It's tedious, but try a 10% OC (3.3ghz), if it's stable go up, if not, raise voltage a little and try again. Keep going up in small increments until you're stable at 4.0 or the highest you can get. Just make sure to monitor motherboard and CPU temperatures as you are benchmarking/testing to ensure you aren't overheating. Other things to consider are your case and fan setup (this will directly affect your CPU temperature if running on air), and what your motherboard FSB is rated to. You will need a FSB of about about 1780 FSB, or 445 actual. This will most likely mean raising FSB voltage as well as CPU voltage. If your case/fans/motherboard heatsinks don't keep your board cool, you may have problems reaching 4.0GhZ. Can you add any more details about your system?

My tried and true method, which has yielded good results (compared to pea sized dot in the middle) is to spread a thin line on one edge of whatever I'm applying thermal paste to, and spread that line across the chipset in question with a razor blade. If done properly, you should end up with a thin coating of thermal paste across whatever chipset you were applying it to. This thin even coating assures full contact in an even coat of contact with your heat sink (waterblock, air cooler, etc.) Coming from a background in heat transfer and thermal dynamics (I work in this field) a thin even coat spread across the entire heat transfer area will work better than hoping a pea sized dot spread by pressure applied by the cooler works better. This is based not only on my own theory to practice, but by physics and heat transfer theory as well. A pea sized dot will spread across the heat transfer area as torwue is applied to the cooler, but a thin layer spread evenly across the heat transfer layer (by a razor or similar object) will coat the entire layer and allow for a more even transfer of pressure by the heat sink.

I've been having really good results from the same fans you are not liking, sans LEDs. I've been running the Coolermaster R4 fans that are smoke grey http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...3-061-_-Product Although I agree the 19dc may be only at low fan speeds, the positive pressure and air flow from these fans has been awesome for me. Much better than my antec, yate loon, and logisys (go figure) fans. I intend on buying more of these to replace my yate loon and antec fans. My Sentry LX has reported the coolermaster fans at 1800-2000 rpms, and they (the coolermaster R4 smoke grey fans) have dropped my temps about 6-10 degrees C (per motherboard, sentry LX, and everest temps). Bang forthe buck, I believe them to be the best fans available. My Antec fan cost 5$ more and hasn't performed as well, and my yate loon fans don't run at as high of rpm or deliver the static pressure the CMs do for similar price. If you are really anti CM, I would look at yate loon. They have been my best buy since the CMs. If you don't like yate loon, idk.

I recently bought mosfet H20 blocks for my 780i. It's definately helped my overclocking. I used to be hit or miss at anything over 4.4G, but now I can hit 4.5 all day and I'm hit or miss at 4.7-4.8. It's also nice to know I won't blow them up trying to break the 5Ghz mark.

The HAF will fit a 360mm radiator inside on top by design, I don't know where else it would fit. Your diagram looks pretty good, but I would move the T-line to the inlet side of the pump, and have the fill port connect to the top of the T instead of the side. This makes for better flow through the loop and will make it easier for air to escape into the fillport line. couflow.bmp If you are going to use a reservoir I would try to link it in in the same place, but depending on what kind you get that may be difficult. If you can see the fillport line you have a level indicator, and air will escape into this line and can be vented out the fillport very easily. A reservoir may or may not help with cooling depending on ambient temperatures in your case, the room your PC is in, and where the reservoir is located. Usually if a reservoir is setup so that coolant flows from the heat source(s) (waterblocks), into the reservoir, and then into the radiator, it will give the most benefit.

I don't think the core revision is going to change the thermal design spec but I'm sure you can check on intel's website. The temperatures people get during testing and all will vary greatly depending on ambient temperature and the type of temperature monitoring they are using. All I was trying to say was that intel has specified a safe operating temperature, and that exceeding it probably isn't a great idea. Breaking that limit for a little bit every now and then should be fine, but operating at or near it on a regular basis will shorten then life of your CPU. I don't have a lot of faith in many reviews I read online (at least not as anything more than guidlines) because results vary. Different cases, CPUs, etc will cause different results. YMMV. Just trying to give you and anyone who reads this a heads up as to safe operating temperatures.

http://processorfinder.intel.com/Details.aspx?sSpec=SLBCH specifically says the thermal design temperature is 67.9C. That's why I said try to keep it under 65C. With a decent water setup, that should be easy. I rarely beak 55C under load as long as I keep my overclock under 4.5GhZ. The full coverage blocks are super expensive because they cool the entire videocard, not just the processor chip. The 40$ block will only cool the processor chip, and leaves the rest of the video card up to passive heatsink. This is a partial coverage GPU block. Notice how the memory chips still have small heatsink placed over them. Only the processor chip is liquid cooled. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...%26tbs%3Disch:1 A full coverage block will cool everything on the card: http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/images/pro...-8800GTx300.jpg Watercooling a complete PC is not cheap. I have both my motherboard chipsets and mosfets banks cooled as well as my cpu. I've got about 500$ invested into my system so far. A start kit for ~200$ or so is a great way to get going, but if you want more than that you're going to end up spending a lot. You could start looking for people with used gear or check ebay if you're looking for a good deal.

Heya! Starter kits are awesome for sure. Swiftech is a good company, as are danger den, EK, koolance, and bitspower (IMO). I started with a danger den kit very similar to the swiftech you are looking at (sans GPU block). I would honestly just skip the GPU block and save up for a full coverage block meant for your card. Performance-PCS.com, Petrastechshop.com, and FrozenCPU.com are all good sites to look for gear at. You can mount the radiator (any radiator meant for 120mm fans up to 360mm long) inside the HAF with ease. Remove the giant top fan, screw rad fans onto rad, screw fans into case. The HAF already has hole drilled for a radiator up there (the last two for a 360mm radiator involve removing the front top piece, it's easy). The generic universal whatever you call it GPU block seen in the swiftech kit you are looking at mounts right over the processor part of the gpu. You will still need passive heatsinks for the GPU memory and anything else on the GPU that needs cooled. That's why I would just hold out for a full coverage block. A good example would be http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ind...oducts_id=25576 . Full coverage blocks aren't cheap, but I believe they work better than generic block and passive heatsinks. I wouldn't worry about cooling the motherboard chipsets or mosfets if your chipset temps are doing ok. I didn't start watercooling my 780i (which runs hot to being with) until I started trying to break the 4.8GhZ mark (when my chipset temps were regularly up near 70C). I would try to keep your CPU under 65C, as the intel thermal design temp is 67.5C. Anything else I can help with, let me know! I've rebuilt my HAF932 cooling setup three times now, and a fourth is on the way (when I ahve the $$$). Soon to have better tubing and inline coolant temp monitoring. yay.

While distilled water will remove a little more heat, a liquid cooling system in a PC isn't going to see much difference as long as your pump keeps things moving. I work primarily with heat transfer systems for a living, albiet on a much larger level than a PC (nuclear power plant). In either case, the principles of heat transfer and fluid flow are the same regardless of what the application is. Most pc coolants are distilled water and glycol mixes (like antifreeze for a car), which will actually freeze at a lower point than water (contrary to what psywar said). Glycol is a kind of alcohol, and alcohol freezes at lower temperatures than water (which is why cooling vodka in the freezer works so well. I am going to start expirementing with an isopropyl based cooling system once I can afford it). Many PC coolants also already have anti microbial agents to prevent fungus and algae buildup inside your system. Also, most pc coolants are designed to be non conductive, so you run less risk damaging something in the event of a leak (distilled water is also non conductive, as long as it remains pure). Many PC coolants are also designed to prevent galvanic corrosion of metal parts and help lubricate pumps. I know primochill sells a line called PC Pure, which is advertised to be glycol free. I have no idea what it's made from or if anyone else makes something like it. Distilled water has a higher heat capacity (the amount of energy it takes to raise an amount of a substance 1C, to keep it simple) than glycol does, which means it will remove more heat. A glycol/water mix will have a specific heat capacity in between distilled water and pure glycol. I have no idea what the specific heat capacities of any pc coolant are. Distilled water will begin to gather impurities just like anything else you run in your system, unless you take extreme care to keep your system clean. If you are going to switch to distilled water, using some kind of cleansing agent in it is a good idea. Running just distilled water also increases your chances for galvanic corrosion (as impurities develop in the water), especially if you have different kinds of metal in your system (aluminum and copper water blocks, for example). Nickle plated copper blocks will not be a concern, as long as all your blocks are copper or nickle plated copper. I can tell you for a fact any cooling system will eventually make distilled water impure, if anything simply through erosion. If you are using something to drop your coolant to near freezing (water freezing) temperatures using a glycol based pc coolant or mixing antifreeze with distilled water (which will basically make it glycol based pc coolant) is a good idea as well. Water wetter helps a cooling system work better by preventing small bubbles from forming on the surface of heat transfer in a cooling system (in a PC system, the waterblock). When a coolant passes over a heat transfer surface, if the surface is hot enough it will start to boil the coolant that is immediately in contact with it, small bubbles will form, and these bubbles will lower the total heat transferred by the coolant. Water wetter will help prevent the bubbles. If your waterblock is reaching temperatures near boiling on the coolant side, you have more to worry about than what kind of coolant you are using. Water wetter is meant more for vehicle systems where temperatures are regularly over 200 degrees farenheit. The downside to water wetter is that it contains Tolytriazole PolySiloxane Polymer, which is a silicone ploymer that will bond with rubbers, plastics, and just about everything else. Over long term use water wetter will start to cause clogs and discoloration because of this. This will happen faster in a small cooling system (like a PC, with relatively small tubing and components) versus a larger system (like a car, where tubing is 2-3" and components are much larger). In conclusion, PC coolants are more expensive than distilled water, but have lower freezing points and usually already contain anti fungal and anti microbial agents (not to mention color choices). I will argue that you are paying extra for having an all in one fluid that is ready to use right out of the bottle. Distilled water is less expensive on it's own, but if you add in the price of anti fungal and anti microbial agents, and possibly anti freeze, you will come out about the same either way. I've been using primochill coolant (because it was cheaper than fesser and came in the color I wanted). Before that I was using thermaltake coolant (because it was available at frys electronics). Both brands have yielded the same performance, as monitored by everest ultimate and temperature sensors affixed to waterblocks. I've compared the ingrediants of these two, and they are almost identical. I would imagine the big difference between brands of coolant are colors available, percentage of distilled water to glycol (or other antifreeze), and chemical composition of anti fungal and anti microbial agents. If you want to stick with coolant, I would find one that looks cool and isn't a bank breaker. Hope this helps.

You can definately skip the reservoir until later (or completely) if you use a t-line and the fillport in the haf. Just make sure to get the system pretty full and keep an eye on the line coming off the fill port for a few days, so you can fill it back up as air is removed from the loop. I run my pump with a power supply jumper (so nothing else gets power) and pour coolant in through the fill port with a funnel (to keep the pump full so it doesn't burn up). Once things look about full, I let the pump run for a few hours to leak check and work out air from the system. I have the t line in my rig just before the pump intake, which helps keep air out of the pump (by allowing it to escape up the t line before flowing into the pump) as well as keeping a little extra fluid on the pump (to add net positive suction head and keep the pump full incase of a small leak). These aren't serious factors to consider in a computer liquid cooling setup, but it makes more sense (to me, at least) than plugging it in after the pump or somewhere else in the system. You can get a t-line from the hardware store (a poly t line is what I've been using, it was like 2 bucks), or buy fittings and a T junction block. They will perform about the same. Just make sure to keep the t-line at least a little full. Hope all is going well with the setup! Good luck and happy overclocking!

I would say 8-10 feet to start. I've used 10 foot pieces both times and had a little extra left over, but having too much is better than not enough. I wish I had a drain port as well. I'm definately adding one next time I take everything apart.

Pump and radiator. These are two items you don't want to skimp on. If you plan on cooling more than your CPU, definately get at least a 240mm radiator. My 240 is working very well cooling my cpu, northbridge, southbridge, and both banks of mosfets. I will probably get a 360mm radiator before I cool anything else. I have two yate loon fans on my radiator, and they aren't bad. I think they were a little under 20$. I am probably going to swap them out with some coolermaster fans because I really like the ones I put on the side of my case, and they are still under 10$. I use metal spring clamps, they work well, but took a little muscle to get in place. All my tubing has been 1/2 ID. The screw hose clamps you can get at the hardware store work great, but they are kind of big, and really not any cheaper than good clamps, As far as tubing goes, you can get ok tubing at home depot or lowes (clear vinyl or black vinyl) for about a dollar a foot. The downside to this stuff is that the tubing doesn't make very tight bends, and it is hard to get over fittings. I would really reccomend getting some tygon brand or other high end tubing. It costs more, but it is definately worth every penny (the couple pieces of tygon I have took all of a minute to install, the home depot stuff took about 10 minutes for each piece). I've been using a T-Line hooked up to the fill port on the HAF 932. It works pretty well for filling and for getting air out. A reservoir might work better, but this is doing well for me so far. As far as tubing bends, the couple places I've had kinks I've taken a screw hose clamp and used to to brace the tubing, so that the tube is forced into a round shape instead of a kink. It's kind of ghetto, but it works. As far as liquid cooling for under 200$, it is possible, but you are better off trying to save up some more money. A 50-60$ air cooler works about as well as a 100$ liquid cpu cooler. I was going to buy a domio system until I read up on it, then bought a V8 until I could save up about 300$ for a good start. Over the last six months I've ended up investing about 6000$ total into my system. I still want to get good tubing for everything, and a couple temperature probes. I would reccomend getting a good CPU block, a good pump, and a good radiator to start, and then adding to the system from there. You shouldn't need more than 3 or 4 feet of tubing to start (depending on how you position everything). Here are a few examples of what I've done with my HAF 932: The red and black setup was my first watercooled setup. I used cheap black vinyl tubing from home depot and screw hose clamps. The pump is between the hard drive bays and the power supply. It worked, but I wasn't very happy with the look of the hose clamps or the pump being so cramped. The green setup was round two. I used clam clamps and the clear vinyl tubing from home depot. The clear tubing was a pain to get over the fittings, and didn't bend very well. The clam clamps were a pain to get on snug and a serious pain to get off. I removed the two bottom HDD trays, as I'm not using them, and mounted the pump sideways to the HDD tray cage with zipties. I wasn't too sure about this until I leak tested. It doesn't make any extra noise, the hose fits right through the cutout in the HDD cage, and it frees up some space. You could argue that I'm losing airflow from the front fan, but that air is keeping the pump a little cooler, and I have 8 others fans moving air, so I'm not worried. The picture sucks. The green/red/brown (ugly, also doesn't glow) setup is my current go. It's working great, and aside from looking ugly. Got some spring clamps to replace the other ones. They were a little tricky to get on, but pinching them with pliers and sliding them in place made it pretty easy. Other than that (and the new waterblocks) everything else is the same. I'm saving up now for Tygon tubing, anti kink coils, and more of those coolermaster fans. Once I get those I am flushing my system like a mad man, and hopefully it will all be glowing red when I'm done.

Ok, here are pics, as promised.

Knowing that voltage doesn't rise linearly with CPU frequency is good to know. I've been doing most of my overclocking based on a linear correlation between frequency and voltage. Thanks again! I had no idea linked and unlinked memory could affect the overclock much, but I don't think I could link my memory without it going nuts. I'll have to play around with it some. Any advice for memory timing while overclocking? Just set it to auto and see what happens, and then maybe go from there? I know that 1066 mHz memory isn't the best DDR2 out there, and anything past a 533 FSB is going to exceed the memory speed. Still, 533 makes for a FSB of 2132 and an overclock of 4.797. Maybe that's the highest I'll get stable? I've hit that mark before (1.48v on CPU, 1.4 on FSB) but only stable enough to run super pi at 1m. OCCT crashed in less than two minutes and 3dmark froze in the spaceship sequence. I really appreciate your guys help with this, as I definately want to break the 4.7g stable barrier. Going to play with some serious voltages soon.