Gun Rights and Politics

[Andrewr05]

Ask how it feels to have backed up (and subsequently concreted) an important aspect of one of the most important rights of the American people.

 

Assuming he would give such information away, ask if he/she owns firearms and what their policy/beliefs are in the gun control department overall.

 

It would be nice to hear what they have to say.

[road-runner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-DaF-sopE8

[dr_bowtie]

nice video....

 

clearly a case of gun control = FAILED

 

 

that would be like sending 2 parties to war but one without guns...that would be a an easy win...

[Coors]

Gun control is absolutely necessary. Thats why I use both hands.

[Andrewr05]

Gun control means never having to say "Oops I missed"

[Silverfox]

Looks like I started a topic.

 

Well, I'm not going to get sucked into this too much, as it's absurd. The need to own a gun because of bad weather? Where's the Government at times like these - that's the question you need to ask, because you should have law enforcement in place to protect its own citizens. Unless they are away in another country in pursuit of black gold.

 

I never suggested it was anything to do with the whole cowboy ethic, though the fact it needed to be mentioned may suggest otherwise. The problems lie in the fact that different states have different requirements - error.

 

Just look at gun control across all of Europe. It works. Plain and simple. You cannot deny the facts, buy you can choose to ignore them, which is fine by me. I don't have a gun, I don't want a gun and I don't and never will need a gun.

 

It's like people in big cars "because they feel safer". Those without buy big cars to feel safe, and you are right back at square one with the need to buy even bigger cars to feel safer from the next big car.

 

 

UK knife crime is quite high, yes. And what do you observe? As I said - bad guys stabbing bad guys (for the most part). Not to mention new knife crime initiatives and laws that are proving to be effective.

 

No wonder so many people in the USA don't leave the country for holidays - they can't bear to be prised away from their guns. What would you all do if guns didn't exist? You'd be up the creek, that's what.

[Verran]

Roadie mentioned the pro-gun thing in a new light here that I thought was kind of interesting. He phrased it in a "don't rely on the government for your safety" sort of way. While this brings up the anti-socialist rhetoric that we already get more than enough of, I did like it. Points about defending yourself in times like Hurricane Katrina are valid points. I still don't like the idea of Billy-Bob sitting on his roof with a rifle playing "Johnny Law" as some sort of adult version of Cops and Robbers, but when local law enforcement fails (for whatever reason), it's reasonable to take over the job yourself.

 

The part that I still can't understand is the founding father belief that the government should fear the people. That worked great for them and I understand their point completely, but in today's age if you've got a weapon that the government is afraid of you need a psych evaluation. I just see these claims of defending oneself against a modern day government-gone-wrong as very delusional.

[Nerm]

Silverfox, What about people like me? I am an avid hunter and actually save money on meat every year by hunting. Without a gun or bow I wouldn't be able to do that. Is hunting not even allowed in Europe?

[LoArmistead]

UK knife crime is quite high, yes. And what do you observe? As I said - bad guys stabbing bad guys (for the most part). Not to mention new knife crime initiatives and laws that are proving to be effective.

 

As opposed to bad guys stabbing good guys? Most murders in the US are also gang bangers killing each other off for drugs, turf, skin color, or whatever. We just have a lot more gang bangers because our government a half century ago decided it wanted to partake in a "war on poverty" that accomplished nothing but the expansion of poverty and the entrapment of those already in it, hence why the number of minority and inner city children who attain higher income levels than their parents has decreased in the last 40 years. Gun crimes commited by citizens who legally carry firearms in public are a trace percentage of total gun crimes.

 

No wonder so many people in the USA don't leave the country for holidays - they can't bear to be prised away from their guns. What would you all do if guns didn't exist? You'd be up the creek, that's what.

 

I've been out of the country plenty. When you are raised around guns and are used to them, leaving the house without it is like walking out and forgetting your watch or your wallet. You feel naked. I guess it's hard to understand for someone who isn't accustomed to it, but that's the best I can relate it.

 

Roadie mentioned the pro-gun thing in a new light here that I thought was kind of interesting. He phrased it in a "don't rely on the government for your safety" sort of way. While this brings up the anti-socialist rhetoric that we already get more than enough of, I did like it. Points about defending yourself in times like Hurricane Katrina are valid points. I still don't like the idea of Billy-Bob sitting on his roof with a rifle playing "Johnny Law" as some sort of adult version of Cops and Robbers, but when local law enforcement fails (for whatever reason), it's reasonable to take over the job yourself.

 

Of all the crimes that occur, how many times are the police there before it happens? Our justice system shifted from punishing criminals to trying to rehabilitate them a long time ago. It is then that law enforcement failed. And I agree, Billy Bob playing Rambo needs to have his . smacked down. And yes, confiscating guns after Katrina was absolutely ridiculous. It's the gang bangers in the inner-city who they should be focusing on, not the guys fending for themselves out in the boondocks. How many headlines were there entitled, "Local redneck fires on National Guard Convoy?" Never. It was all deep inside the city itself. Confiscating those weapons was utterly unconstitutional, and the people who made that call should be drawn and quartered on national television.

 

The part that I still can't understand is the founding father belief that the government should fear the people. That worked great for them and I understand their point completely, but in today's age if you've got a weapon that the government is afraid of you need a psych evaluation. I just see these claims of defending oneself against a modern day government-gone-wrong as very delusional.

 

Maybe "being afraid" is too strong a word to use. I look at it as keeping the government in check. When they know there are tens of millions of armed citizens across the fruited plain, there's a lesser likelihood of the government taking an action that would piss the people off. After all, the government's job is to serve the people, not the other way around. it has literally gone from protecting the people from foreign invaders and regulating interstate commerce to being Big Brother. And it's only going to get worse. Not to mention, it's the principle behind it all, if the government doesn't trust its own managers to have guns, it really shows what they think about the people they are serving. Suzanna Hupp, congresswoman from Texas, once said:

 

"How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual

[Verran]

The stuff Lo said

I understand the point about whether we should assume tax-payers are trustworthy or not, but honestly I can't agree with it. For me personally, yes, I think the government should treat me with the respect I deserve. But when I think about people (not individuals, I'm talking about the horde... the "masses") I don't assume them to be very smart. Can you honestly say you do? I mean people are just stupid, plain and simple. Now there's a very strong possibility that people are so stupid as a result of this pretty little government cradle that's been built for them. Ideally that cradle should not exist, but it does. There's no arguing that. So the question becomes whether or not it's going to help to just take it away.

 

We can talk about what should and shouldn't be in an ideal government and I bet if we did you and I would agree on almost everything. But the problem is that that's not our reality and we really can't expect it to be. So how do we make the best of what is our reality? Do you give the morons guns because it's unfair to deny the intelligent minority their rights? I don't know. Ideally, yes, but this isn't an ideal world.

 

That's why I support a more strict policy for acquiring firearms. To me, it's an unfortunate but minor sacrifice that's necessary when you acknowledge that the world is not perfect. That opens a whole can of worms of the slippery slopes of government control and registration making it possible for 'them' to come take your guns, but that honestly doesn't bother me one bit. If they want your guns, they're going to take them and that's the end of the story. It goes back to the whole future of warfare thing. You can't stop them, and if you think differently I think you might have a hero complex.

[Silverfox]

Silverfox, What about people like me? I am an avid hunter and actually save money on meat every year by hunting. Without a gun or bow I wouldn't be able to do that. Is hunting not even allowed in Europe?

 

Yes, hunting is allowed I don't have an issue with hunters at all. Though I doubt you carry a gun or rifle with you at all times, lest you see a deer at the supermarket or at college.

 

But to suggest that lugging a gun about is the same as carrying a wallet (in that you rarely forget to take one with you), is beyond me. Clearly I don't understand this 'logic'. Not aimed at you Nerm!

[LoArmistead]

But to suggest that lugging a gun about is the same as carrying a wallet (in that you rarely forget to take one with you), is beyond me. Clearly I don't understand this 'logic'. Not aimed at you Nerm!

 

I don't blame you for it. A gun is only as deadly as the person using it. Do you think twice before starting your car up every morning? Do you know not to point a knife forward while walking with it? It's the same concept. Knives, cars (both of which inflict more non-combat deaths than guns do), and guns can all be very deadly weapons, but we are used to holding knives, we are used to driving cars. Think how many people are scared crapless the first time they get behind the wheel? It's the same for a gun. If they don't have much experience using one, the thought of actually using it may seem scary or foreign. I understand completely how you feel about it. I'm just trying to let y'all know how I look at it.