Gentlemen, and ladies of course, I just recently posted about my overclocking problems. I finally decided (I am a geezer and have to be repeatedly beat upon to learn anything) to buy a new power supply; an OCZ GamerXStream600 is to be delivered on the 5th of July from Monarch. Since I am new to the "DFI Street" forums I continued to plow through the many, many, many posts (it's refreshing to see such an extensive site for one manufacturers products) and I found that it might be an advantage to buy a new case to replace my existing no-name case with it's many mods and changes to help with airflow.

I decided that I wouldn't pay more than $100 (California dollars). I looked at many cases both from internet reviews and from the cases listed in the sigs on this website. I looked at both the Thermaltake Tsunami and the Soprano. They are too close to my own case with it's problems; small fans and not enough drive space. I finally decided on the Antec P180 but the lowest price I could find was about $132 (California dollars) with shipping/taxes. I was luckily able to find that Fry's Electronics has it on sale for $100 during the 4th of July holiday. I was down there at 9:00am today to pick one up; luckily I got the only siver case although they had 4-6 blacks.

My question now is what do I do with it? There seems to be a problem with routing cables. Some say that their PSU doesn't have cables that are long enough to reach the necessary connectors. I will be using an OCZ GameXStream600. Problem? My sig shows what I will have in the new Antec P180. I am somewhat (others say totally) anal about my cable routing; I love to have proper airflow and that is why I chose the P180 with it's 120mm fans. I would really like to hear from others that have the case and have worked through the problems!

Eeyore

i have the antec p160 case and i love it - it seems this case is just the perfect size for my ocz power supply cables - it looks very nice and clean after the cables are stacked away


edit:
i misread your post...i thought you were asking about purchase advice.....disregard this

Perfect for you. I have 2 P180. Ther is room for 6 Hdd. Put the 4 in raid0 in bottom and the 2 ide above with optional 120 input cooling fan. I use the CoolIt Freezone in both.
One is HTPC with SLI of 7800 512MB GFX boards the other is My surfer and movie processor and use for folding. Has a Gallatin 3.4 Extreme edition with hyper thread. A 135 watt house warmer OC'd to 3.73Ghz. Works for me. I turn it off a couple of nights just about every week. The HTPC drives a 50 inch Samsung DLP.

Welcome to DFI Street!

I'm a P180 owner too, and love it. Cable management is a challenge, no doubt or argument.

You might have a good read here, thread is still a work in progress lol, but any P180 is:

http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53642

I've just ordered a OCZ GX myself, replacing an Enermax Liberty I'm passing down to another system.

The Liberty had long enough cables to make all the connections, but not without a little bit of a mess showing, and a lot of fussing, and some home made adaptors. It still was far from what I wanted. The main problem is the connectors on the leads are too close together, making it impossible to use one lead to connect two devices.

The OCZ GX has longer cables than the Liberty, and from the pictures I studied very closely here:

http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56164

I can see, for example, that he can make both the floppy connection and the molex connection with the same cable -- something the Liberty cannot do.

You are going to want to pick up one more extra 120mm fan to fill the empty slot they don't ship filled.

I don't recommend using the side air duct at all, I believe I elaborate into why in the above thread I first linked to. It is pretty much useless compared to a single 120mm fan rigged in any way shape or form.

Be very careful with the aluminum surface when working on it, it scratches very easily. I remove both side panels and the front door and put them in a safe area. Even the slightest bump can cause a scratch.

The front door panel comes off very easily, just open it then grasp the top near the hinge with the left hand, pinching the vented black plastic. Then with your right hand, grab the same black plastic in the middle and bend it a bit toward you. This essentially makes the strip shorter, making the pins pop out effortlessly. Put it back the same way. Takes 2 seconds.

It is a great case. Very very quiet, the composite layer really does help dampen noise. It is very flexible as to how you choose to configure it for components or cooling. It has plenty of room. It is extremely effective for air cooling, I personally feel it is the best there is becuase the upper chamber equals a small case, yet it can hold so many 120mm fans.

It does require a bit of experimentation and tuning. Play with the fan speeds for the intake and exhaust, trying to keep the exhaust higher in general. Nothing is carved in stone with the P180, I've read of people flipping one or both exhausts to intakes, and getting good results... sort of depends on the HSF though.

Feel free to ask any questions here or the other thread, I may not be around for the next day or two, but usually drop in here daily. Good luck, I'm sure you will be happy with your system, you have a good combo there and once you see your temperatures in the P180 compared to your old case, you will see what I mean about it's cooling abilities.

Thank you all for the replies. I picked up the case Saturday at Fry's Electronics in San Marcos CA (Just north of SanDiego) and have been looking at it to decide what to do. Since my GameXStream600 is not getting here until tomorrow and 2 more hard drives are still on there way I haven't started assembly yet.

One thing I discovered about the P180 is that the video card cooler no longer comes with the case. I hadn't really paid attention on the Antec website but I was looking at the various reviews of the overclocking sites; all of them showed the video card cooler but most of them were older reviews. I wasn't planning on using it any way since I am not into gaming and the higher end video cards. Although when I replaced the stock chipset fan with the Evercool I did make the SLI mod to my Ultra-D; scraping the jumper pads to remove the epoxy coating and using a pencil to bridge the jumper position.

Since my overclocking days a few years ago I still use a Vantec Nexus fan controller and I have more fans than I know what to do with. The computer geeks where I work call me the "Fan Man" because I am always buying a fan or two when I order other items. And, of course, they don't complain much when they need a fan and I can supply it. Since I am going to have both hard drive bays filled (six drives) I can only have four 120mm case fans installed; the front middle fan position can't be used because of the two drives in the cage. The Vantec controller has four positions so I plan on using one for the CPU, one for the lower PSU fan, one for the front middle position and one for the two upper fans. Depending on how the PWMIC temperature reacts in the new case I might add another 80mm fan to cool the PWMIC/MOSFETs.

One of the reasons that I bought the GameXStream600 was the length of the cables and the number of connectors; my current system has many adaptor/splitters because the PSU has very few stock connectors. Another problem was with the +12v. Both the BIOS reading and MBM showed it varying between 12v and 11.6v. And many people had problems with PSUs that were too large to fit in the space allowed by the P180. The GameXStream600 is one of the physically smaller supplies and that could be an advantage.

LithoTech: thanks for the tip about the from door. I have read that it is flimsy and it does seem to be so. Once I had the system together I was planning on leaving the door open completely so that I wouldn't accidently bread it. Now I might just remove it entirely since I have never had a case with a door anyway.

One other thing I like about it is the weight. It is heavy and many of the reviewers didn't care for that. The extra weight seems to make it seem more substantial especially compared with the less expensive models. For the price range it is definitely the I found.

Eeyore

Yeah, I don't leave the door open at all, it stays closed unless I am overclocking and need to see the front panel display. I then remove it completely. I've come close to nailing it with pen's in my mouse hand, having it swing hard and fast and almost hitting the side panel, stuff like that and I just said forget it, take it off or leave it closed. I have a special place I put it, no chance it can get sat on or knocked about. Same for the side panel.

One other thing to watch for, if moving the case a bit on a desktop, be sure to push from the very base of the case, and NOT the door!! I just forced myself to get in the habit of moving it with my fingertips as low to the ground as possible.

They made a revision to the front door panel, it is much better now. It is easy to check if you have it.

Look at the inside of your front door, if it is an aluminum panel it is the updated door. If it is black plastic, it is only two layers, and the old door.

If you have the older two layer door, and it does not sit perfectly flush with the case when it is closed, contact your supplier for a replacement. If they give you any grief, simply go straight to Antec and they will ship you a new one. While you are at it, check that the side panels are not delaminating, and if they are get Antec to replace them as well.

I don't mind the weight either, I'd like to see a theif try to carry this up the stairs, let alone out the door and to the street! LOL. No way it will ever tip over, it is so bottom heavy.

I picked up my OCZ GX 600 today, no time to install yet. I did measure the ATX cable length though, because I was shocked at how short it looked, probably just in comparrison to the rest of the cables.

It is 22 inches pretty much bang on.

I checked the length of the Liberty's cables, and the cables are also exactly 22", so we are perfectly cool and will have no problem reaching the connection. It's just that I was expecting and looking forward to a few more inches on that main line, would have helped.

The rest of the cables are way long and nice, going to be a piece of cake.

PSU size, ahhh yes. Many people running the Powerstream had to flip that big fan around to make it fit. You could fit a kilowatt PSU down there if you needed, sans that big fan and probably the whole mounting bracket. But smaller is nice, there will be plenty of room to store unused cable down there.

LithoTech;

Per your tip about the door I have already removed it and stored it in my spare bedroom with all of the other spare computer junk that I have. And it is the new style of door with the aluminum sandwich.

I will be getting my PSU today since the FedEx status report says that it is on the truck for delivery. I am glad to hear that the cables are long enough. In reading the reviews on the case and the PSU I had assumed that the cables would be more than long enough. As long as they reach I guess more length is not necessary.

Since my PSU is due today I have decided to begin moving the components from my current system into the new case even though my additional hard drives are not due in until Saturday or Monday; I can always install them then. And it will give me a chance to see if the system works after the changeover of components; when I get my new drives I will be creating two new RAID0 setups. One will be my main that currently has 3 SATAII drives and will have 4 and the other will be adding a second PATA to the current single drive to use for my backups.

One other thing I just realized after reading one of the threads about chipset coolers is that I need to cut out some holes in the motherboard mounting plate. My current case has 2 original cutouts, 1 cutout I made behind the processor on a previous motherboard AND the two holes I drilled recently to allow access to the chipset mounting holes on the Ultra-D. So before FedEx gets here, and the case is still empty, I will measure for hole position for the chipset mounting and break out my hole saw.

And the process begins,

Eeyore

Congrats on getting a killer case!
I also have one - still in it's box awaiting the HTPC Project.

However, as you start assembling the fans I just read a PSU warning that makes sense - even on a P180 if the lower (PSU) chamber is not sealed tight.

The point was that up to now most folks placed there fans mostly in exhaust, placing the case in a negative (slight vacume) orientation.
He found this can starve a PSU of airflow, enen when the PSU has it's own 120mm fan.
When the PSU was loaded, the temps went up and (of course) the effeciency and volts went down!

He fixed the problem PSU by just turning the case fans around (blowing into the case) and putting the case into a positive pressure mode.
This moved a LOT more cool air through the PSU (even more that it's fan could push) and lowered the PSU component temps - and the voltage problems also disapeared!

Think about it - don't cripple that OCZ.

I had a setup in a P180 (until I transferred the parts into a MM Twice 7 cube), and it was pretty sweet. Clean cable management will take a lot of work, and a little creativity - but it can be done. There is a lot of room behind the removable drive cages for running and stashing cables, as well as running cables up the backside, and along the top. I chose an Antec NeoPower for a PSU, as the cables for an OCZ modstream, Hiper type R, and Ultra 500 were too short on the 4 vt line. The Ultra actually was long enough, but it was way too thick and stiff (same with the ATX cable). Mesh covered cables are better, because you'll need flexibility going past that VGA area. The door was the first thing I removed, as I used a Zalman fanbus that prevented the door from closing. I jigsawed a window into the side (dremel gummed up too bad with the dual layer AL and plastic in the middle), and I ended up putting a case skin on it, too. It's in storage now, stripped out (accept for the Antec PSU). Honestly, I would never buy one again. It's a nice box, but it weighs a ton, and I think for the money, you can get your hands on a much more user friendly case. I felt like it was more fun monkeying with the whole build, than actually enjoying the end result, if that makes sense. Just my opinion, as a lot of ppl really dig them. I'll pull it out someday, and probably cut it up for a WC setup, or something like that.

Gentlemen,

I am really disappointed with the P180/OCZ combo. Running the molex cables was a real pain. Since the case is taller than my old one and I have my fan controller and 2 cd/dvd drives mounted in the top bays it turns out that I had to use an extender to get to the top bay. Even then cable is too short (by a couple of inches) to route it out of the airflow. The SATA cables were a little easier since there is a space below the lower cage to tuck all of the excess. Also the lower middle fan is really close to the lower drives and the SATA data cables come very close to the fan blades; I am going to look for some SATA cables with right angle connectors on one end.

But the worst problem is with the temperature. In my old case the cpu temp (at 100%) was about 41c, the chipset 43c and the pwmic 43c. In the new case the temps are (at idle) 43c, 51c and 41c with all 4 fans at low speed (7v). The temps (at idle) with all of the fans at high speed (12v) are 38c, 42c and 39c. I suspect part of the problem is with the fan in the psu chamber and the fan in front of the middle hard drive cage; both are blowing in. I don't think they are able to get any airflow through the drives; and I still haven't added the final SATA or PATA drives that I am planning. And the case has a perforated area in the rear that was used for the vga duct that used to come with the P180 and the slot covers are also perforated. So I think that the rear fans that exhaust air are just taking air from the perforations in the rear of the case and immediatly exhausting it back out. I am afraid to try running the system at 100% until I can resolve the issue.

Another problem is the noise. Both at fan idle and full speed the system is much noiser that when using my old case. I am going to play with everything to see what I can do but I have the feeling that I am going to be looking for another case.

Eeyore

I picked up one on sale a week ago and spent the weekend cutting and tinkering with it. The potential is there but it is a challenge routing cables and coming up with the best way to get air in/out. Without any intake at the front/bottom the hard drives are quite toasty. I was going to zip tie a 92mm fan at the front and forgot to cut a slot for the cable. Had too much installed at that point to go back and really needed it up and running to test a vid card. I think with some time and experimentation you will be able to get it to the point of wanting to keep it. Keep us posted and snap some pics if you can. Be a shame to spend all that time fussing with it but sometimes we buy stuff that lots of people swear by and we are left hating it for one reason or another (Like my Tsunami)

Good luck!!

OG,

I see you live in the LA area. I would assume that you got your sale case at Fry's since they have a few stores in the LA and Orange County areas. I grew up in Santa Ana and just moved to the San Diego area about 20 years ago; when I lived there I bought computer supplies from the Fountain Valley store. I bought my P180 on sale from Fry's in San Marcos last Saturday.

The first thing I am trying is to block up the various non-fan openings in the back of the case. I put tape over the rectangular set of perforations on the back and I am going to replace the perforated slot covers with non-perforated. And I am thinking of putting a fan on the side of the case. My last case had a side with a mounting position for an 80mm fan; it was positioned just over the heatsinks for the mosfets and the pwmic. I put a 50-60cfm fan there and hooked it to my fan controller. It helped out greatly with cooling the pwmic and the chipset. If it fits I would install a 120mm fan in the same relative position to cool the pwmic and chipset and it should add air to the case and "pressurize" it. Then I would have 5 120mm case fans and 1 120mm psu fan. I just have to do something about the outrageously high temps.

I'll have to think about the fan mod for a bit though. I need to decide what a good method for making the fan hole is and I need to find a fan template. With a brand new case I would hate to do a poor "hack" job on it. As greatscott68 indicated I will also probably use a jigsaw since that is about as sophisticated a tool I have. Then I will find some type of grommet material that I can use to cover the cut edge before I mount the fan. I need to search the web and see what others have done to mod their cases; particularly the P180 with its sandwich side panels.

As far as pictures go I wouldn't really want anyone to see my system yet; I am still going to work on my cable routing. I think it is the best that I can do but things can always be improved with more thought. Also, I am not sure that I would know how to post pictures. This is really my first posting to any forum and I am a total newbie at posting.

Eeyore

Stickied at the top of this section are some P180 pics in my stacker 810 thread provided by Lithotech and Happy has some Fan mount templates as well...

Are you talking about cutting a hole in the door for a 120mm? That is something I'm contemplating doing and I'd do something like I did with my Stacker blow hole. A jigsaw job with a trim ring/bezel and trap plate...

Edit: I bought my case from newegg with free shipping and a dreaded rebate...

OG,

I saw that add for the P180 on Pricegrabber or such but I was a day late and a dollar short or I would have ordered from Newegg also. I thought about placing a fan on the front door or on the doors that cover the filters but I didn't think it would help. I already have a fan in back of the upper 3.5" hard drive cage and the one in the lower psu duct and I feel that they aren't doing much because of the hardrives blocking the lower duct intake and the hard drives and cables in front of the fan in front of the upper cage. My old cage had an 80mm fan on the side panel blowing onto the motherboard. It was positioned in the center of the panel which placed it in line with the pwmic and mosfet heatsinks. If I cut into the side panel of the P180 it will have to be off center to blow directly onto the pwmic and mosfets. This will give airflow that is not blocked by anything in front of it and increase the overall pressure in the case. As I said earlier I think that there is too little inward airflow from the front and too much exhaust airflow. This caused air to be drawn in from whatever holes there are in the case; right now the air is being sucked in from all of the openings in the back of the case (I think) and flowing immediately out through the fan in the top and the rear of the case without blowing across the motherboard.

I just looked through my stockpile of fans and found 2 120mm fans that draw about 8w at 12v; I think that is at least 90cfm. That sounds good for the side panel fan since it will be controlled by my fan controller.

Thanks much for the links to the information that I would like to see before I get serious with the side panel.

And I just saw that you can attach files just as if you were emailing. Maybe one day I will snap a shot or two and try some pictures.

Eeyore

I had my eye on the P180 for quite some time before purchasing my CM Wave Master. I changed my mind when I read all of the reports of cabling being too short. I have had no problems with mine at all!

By the way, I am a geezer, also. Retired and loving it (10 years/since age 50)!!

I probably would not buy another P180 but I didn't want to spend over ~$100 which is what the P180 cost on sale. The Wavemaster goes for closer to $150; it also resembles the $30 case I was using as far as internal layout goes. And I was also looking for more drive slots; the Wavemaster (and my old case) were one short of what I wanted. If I had my choice (after seeing the P180) and wanted to spend more I would probably go with one of the Stackers (old or new version). But since I now have the P180 I am stuck with it and will have to modify it to correct the problems I see in it.

Which brings me to another question for those that own P180s. The main problem I have is poor airflow and overheating; the drives block (in both upper and lower drive bays) airflow. I would like to improve the flow by modifying the exterior intake areas in the front. Has anyone removed the small front doors and how is it done; without breaking them of course? I would like to try cutting every other "slat" from the door to open the intake area or just leaving them off. Also, has anyone removed the perforated metal sections of the case behind the filters? If so has it helped airflow? I may take my nibbling tool and go at it just leaving the perforations that hold the filters on. I do like the filters even though they have to restrict airflow; none of my previous cases had filters and every few months I would be vacuuming and blowing out all of the dirt. But these filters are not very fine and may not do any good anyway so I might end up removing them. When I first got the case I removed the main door but have put it back on since it does lessen the noise. With the main door on I could remove the small doors, filters and cut away the front sections of the chassis without it showing.

I haven't seen any pages showing such a mod but any links would be appreciated,

Eeyore

Just a quick reply here for now. My system has been down since yesterday while I swapped the PSU out for the GameXStrem 600. Due to work related interuptions, some extra tinkering (future plans, taking measurments for a bracket I am going to fabricate myself because I don't want to cut the one I bought), and a lot of cleaning while I was in there, I never got the system back up till later today.

I've got a ton of pics to sort through, but probably the most interesting one would be the adapters and extentions that I no longer need with this PSU.

The first thing that I really want to address is your cable length. I can't understand how your molex cables are not long enough! I ran one cable up to the top chamber, and managed to jack it into the DVD with it's second or third connector, with tons of wire and connectors left over to stretch to the top 5.2 bay as well as behind the drive bays to pick up the front intake fan power. I had no problem whatsoever hitting all these connections, as well as tagging the mobo's floppy and molex connections with the last two on the line.

So I am really at a loss as to how you cannot make the top drive bay, it should be an easy stretch.

I recall first running the line, I pulled every inch I could into the top chamber, temporarily stashed the bulk of it as I then began to work backwards starting from the floppy connection on the mobo. Then the mobo molex connection. Then into the back of the case for the fan, then around to the DVD and top drive bay for my FPD molex connection. The cables fell into place almost on their own, and this was by far one of the easiest wires to run out of the whole job -- that and the sata line.

It pulled out two splitters/extensions from this same area of connections, where the Liberty simply would not make all the connections in one or even two lines, because the connectors on the lines are too damn close together.

Once I get the pictures downloaded and edited, I'll come back and post em here. Hopefully the pics will show a better idea of what I am dribbling about.

I found the sata cables very nice indeed. I have 3 drives in the lower bay, only 2 are sata. I found the cables tucked very nicely inbetween the dives for the short run between the connectors, and the extra fits underneath like you say. The clean finished look of the drives compared to the best I could do with the Liberty cables is night and day. Again, pics are best to describe this, and hopefully I will find time tomorrow to post them.

As for the cables getting close to that big fan in the bottom, I never had a problem with that, and found just massaging the cables away from it worked fine. The sata wires hold a nice curve shape, and it was easy to get them to stay well away from the fan, it was the IDE cable and other wires that were always getting close. I do remember though, trying out mounting the drives both ways -- and only one way worked well getting the sata cables to be in the right profile for the L-shape to line up correctly.

One very important thing to note here regarding that big fan. I took mine out with this PSU swap, and put a 90mm in it's place. That opened a large hole on the back side to route my cables up to the upper chamber from the lower HDD bay area. This saves an inch or so in length (guessing), but more importantly it got rid of a very ugly mass of wires running past the lower right corner of the mobo, moving it as far as possible to the drive bay area, and in the end I finally got that rats nest cleaned up.

Once I was up and running again, I noticed a lot of noise from that 90mm, and ended up reducing it's speed with a resistor. At full speed, I sware it was moving WAY more air than the old big 120 even at high speed. I highly recommend swapping that big POS out for a good quality silent 90mm, or any 90mm on a fanbus or resistor. I still can't believe that thing hardly moves any air, it causes a slight breeze compared to the blast the 90mm was directing towards the PSU.

I also had another look at putting a 120mm in front of the lower drive bay, and I've decided to go for it. All you really need to do it cut out the lower part of the intake bracket, and not drill out the rivets and remove the whole thing. With the lower part out of the way, any 120mm will fit in there easily, and probably won't even need a mounting screw. The only thing I'm still unsure of is if the plastic filter locking tabs will fall inside the fan or hit an edge and push the fan away -- if so then the filter has to go. I'm ordering some fans soon, and this mod is easy and next on my list.

Temperatures:

Not sure whats going on here. I can tell you that my Socket A XP3000 used to run full load at 48C in this case. When I moved it back to it's original case it runs at 52-54C. That system folds 24/7, full load. The old case has 2 x 80mm rear exhaust and 1 x 80mm front intake, it looks empty the wires are so hidden, and has perfectly good airflow. It simply cannot keep up with the 120mm fans in the P180 system.

I can think of a few things for you to check. Knowing you are a fan-nut (me too I think lol), I'm sure you haven't got something mounted backwards, but check anyway because I found one of the fans mounted wrong in this case from shipping. Also, the 3-speed fans are a little weak at low speed, so I run my upper intake at medium since it is still nearly silent and will move air noticably at medium and high. I run the lower back exhaust at medium and the top at low.

I covered the perforated area with a home made filter. I wasn't worried it was drawing air in from it, as long as the air was filtered to help keep the dust down. I recently changed the filter material to a cut piece of Swiffer pad you get for those brooms, $2 a box, they are dry, electrostatic, and do not hinder air much if at all. It works good, and since there IS dust in that filter, the case does draw air from there.

Very good point you make however, stagnant air is a killer for heat. Easiest thing to do to verify if it is the cause of your problem, plug the enire perforated area with a piece of cardboard and see what it does for your temps.

My chipset seems to run hot too, even with a VC-RE on it, and another 120mm fan actively cooling the vid card and chipset. The intake from the HDD bay should push right past this area of the mobo, so I am wondering about this myself. I have a 120mm up by the top 5.2 bay that works as an intake, and maybe the freeflowing air from there is causing stagnant air in the lower area. Hmmm, I don't think so, because even when I run with the case open I get a hot chipset.

Noise!? What case did you have before? I can't imagine a quieter case that this, nothing else on the market has such dampening properties as this laminate. With my fans at low except for one intake and one exhaust on medium, with the case closed, I can barely hear it over the other computers and ambient nose. Even with the case open and all the fans at high, I can still hear the iMac behind me winding away with it's minature fan as it folds 24/7 too. And I have 6 x 120mm fans in the upper chamber!

As for another case, the only one I'd love to have to replace this is the CoolerMaster Stacker 830. It is a little pricey especially when you fill it with all the extras and fans, but man what a sweet large case it is!

The next case I am buying is the Sunbeam Silent Storm for a system I plan to build in August for my eldest. I like the rail system for the mid-mount fans, and the rest of the case looks good for the money. I'll toss the PSU that comes with it and put in the Liberty.

Cable management is a real challenge alright. I must have spent over 8 hours putting in this new PSU, although a lot of time was eaten up tinkering etc. Still, I had a goal and was determined to finally clean up the mess that was coming from the lower chamber, moving it to come up from the lower HDD bay by passing the cables through the lower fan slot. So out goes the big fan in there and in went a 90mm that I sware moves more air even when set to 7v.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the front intake will hold a 120mm easy if you nick out the lower part of the bracket that is riveted to the case.

You could try running with the upper drive bay removed from the case, that should give that intake fan unhindered flow and verify your theory. Adjusting it's speed while doing this test should also verify one way or another.

Posting pics is easy, just click the Insert Image icon, paste the URL of the pic, and you are done.

Couple things to note re posting pics:

Size to be limited to 800x600, not one pixel more. For larger pictures, post the pic as a link instead of an imbedded picture.

What URL?? Most people use ImageShack, it is free and works like a charm. Creat an account, use their utility to upload a pic, and it will give you a page with URLs aready to go including one that shows a thumbnail for losting in forums like this, and if a user clicks the thumbnail it will open a window with the full image.

Looking forward to seeing whatever you have in progress or finished.

I hope that this heat thing is a simple thing that is fixable. It must be, because while this isn't the best case ever made for cooling, it is one of the best and you should get comparable temps I think unless your old case is extremely efficient. Hmm, I'm sure it is! Perhaps the P180 has met it's match?

I've been looking for a good fan controller, and was almost settled on the Zalman ZM-MFC1. Now I'm not sure... this the controller you have?

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku...e=ZALMAN%20TECH

I thought I was sure it would clear the door panel. It doesn't?

The dials need to be I think less than 1/2 inch in depth IIRC. Is it the toggle switches that are the problem?

The only other fanbus I'd consider is the Sunbeam 4 Port Rheobus. I'm leary of this controller because I read the dials will go below 5v and the fan can stop spinning and then overheat and/or cause a fire. I have kids sharing the computer area, and I'd be worried one of them would play with the nobs. It just seemed too much to risk, it could end up burning the house down lol!

The Zalman only goes down to 7v, a saftey net I need for now. But if I can't close to door with it, forget it.

Here's from a discussion from NCIX:

The plastic doors should come off easy enough, it looks like the top hinge on them bends down to release it. I just tried using a pen, no-go; a little more force perhaps, or remove the front bezel to have a closer look.

Cutting out the grating is a good idea and should be easy enough. You'd have to loose the filters because they clip onto the grating.

I haven't seen or heard of this being done, but you aren't treading on completely new ground. I did run into a website way back when I first got this case, they sell mods for P180s:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ind...roducts_id=3304

LithoTech,

My main problem with the length is due to the fact that I have the fan controller in the top 5.25" slot with 2 cd/dvd drives right below; the controller is only about 3" deep and that is where the molex power connector is (about 6" in from the back of the bay). I ran the 1st molex (closest to the psu) all the way up as far as possible; it would have had sufficient length if the device was a full sized device but I ended up needing a 6" extension to reach the contoller connection. I then came back down and plugged the 2nd connector on the cable into the upper drive in the upper cage. This lets me go straight over and plug the 3rd molex onto the motherboard and the floppy connector onto the motherboard. I tried plugging the 2nd molex into the fan controller and the 1st into a lower drive but then the 3rd molex and the floppy connector could not reach the motherboard. It works fine but I am a little (yeah, just a little) bit anal and would rather not have to use an extender. I did the same thing with the second molex cable; I plugged the 1st connector into the the cd/dvd drive just below the fan controller, the 2nd into the cd/dvd drive below the first, the 3rd into the lower drive in the upper cage HD cage and then into the floppy with the 4 pin connector. If I didn't need my floppy drive or if I wanted to use more extenders or even if I had a different motherboard the cabling could have been different.

The SATA power cables were fine and plenty long enough. I use 4 SATAII drives and the extra cable fits nicely into the section below the lower drive cage.

I did what you did with the SATA data cables but I worry about them slowly straightening because of the higher temperature and then hitting the fan blades. Since I leave my computer running most of the time I might not be home at that time to hear the sound of rubbing blades and cables. Just a minor problem.

I had read elsewhere about putting a 92mm fan in the psu duct to replace the 120mm. Since I have my computer doing something right now I can't take the fan/holder out to look at it. Since the fan is smaller than the holder I would guess that 2 new holes would need to be added and the fan mounted with only 3 screws. If you position it to the side closest to the outside and towards the bottom then you could run cables either over the top or to the side of the fan. Is this how you positioned yours? That wouldn't help with my molex cable length problem but it sure would get rid of that bunch of cables over the corner of the motherboard! I only have a couple of 92mm fans in my junk box but they are only low output (~35cfm) so I need to go online and find something with more output; I would like to go with something like the Vantec Tornado but I don't want to pay $14-15. I generally pick up cheap fans when I browse the internet stores whether I need them or not. The cheaper ones are also generally use sleeve bearings which I like; they make less noise than the ball bearing types. Just last week I picked up two fans from SVC.com. One is a 92mm (60+ cfm) and the other an 80mm (~56cfm). I am using the 92mm on my XP-90 or I would have tried it to replace the 120mm. Especially since the Antec case manual says that the 120mm fan in the psu duct is rated at 60cfm at full speed; the other 2 that came with the case are rated at 80cfm.

As far as putting another 120mm fan in front of the lower drive cage, how were you planning on cutting the intake bracket with it still in the case? And the distance from the drive cage itself to the front of the perforated grill (the perforated section is punched out from the surrounding section) is 1". The lower output 120mm fans are 25mm (1") thick; it would be iffy in getting a fan to fit. And you would need to attach it somehow or it would vibrate. I really wish I had an empty case to look at with the front bezel off. I see the pop rivets from the front and they would be easy to remove and replace but I can't really tell how everything goes together. There were a few posts here that told of someone that put a 120mm in there but when asked how it was done there was no reply. At this time I really don't want to empty my case since I am also having oc'ing since installing my motherboard in the new case with the OCZ psu. It won't overclock any where near what it did before in my cheap case and with a $25 psu (a CompGeeks product). Hoping to get a better overclock with the OCZ psu was the main reason for the change. I am afraid things might get worse if I remove the board and replace it; but then again it might get better. It's too bad I am a pessimist and not an optimist. This mod will have to wait until I do need to remove the motherboard.

One of the first things I did was check the direction of the fans; the "fronts" are intakes and the "backs" are exhaust. I have the fans that came with the case set on high since I have the controller to set the speed. The only time that the temps are decent is with all of the fans on high.

I hadn't thought about blocking the air on the intake side to see how it affects the temp. Thanks for the tip.

None of my other cases had filters but a couple of times (this was before the Swiffer) I used the thin green or white scrub pads; they are like the green or white backside of a sponge but without the sponge material. But I always thought that they blocked too much air. Now I might buy some and do some testing with them as I will with the cardboard. And I will have to look at a Swiffer pad too since you say that they are electrostatic (watch them around sensitive components). If they are more porous than the scrub and electrostatic it would be perfect. Again it depends on how they affect airflow.

Since my chipset has always run warm I put one of the Evercool units on but it did nothing for the temps even when it was in my old case. I tried reapplying AS; no help. I even lapped the VC-RE and that actually made the temp worse by about 1 degree. One thing that I noticed when I had PIII flipchip processors is that are were "convex" being higher in the middle. The chipset might be the same. When I had the PIIIs I lapped both the heatsink and the chip; it was always recommended that it not be done on the mod sites because it didn't have the metal case and was only epoxy. I did 3 of them with no problems; underneath the green coating on top was silver and when lapped with 2000 grit it looked like a mirror. But the NF4 chipset can't be removed to lap it easily and can't be replaced if damaged; trying to lap it in place even causes me to shudder. So before I lapped the VC-RE it may have been slightly concave and the chipset convex so they fit together better. Now the chipset is convex and the cooler base is flat; just a guess as to the increase in temp after lapping. Another thing I have noticed since swithing to the P180/OCZ combo is that my GPU is running a degree or two higher also; this is pretty much at idle since I don't game and haven't been running anything that is video intense.

My last case was a no-namer from CompGeeks that had a 120mm (100cfm) fan in the front (after I modded an 80mm mounting position) an 80mm (60cfm) in the rear and an 80mm (60cfm) on the side blowing onto the motherboard; the side fan was stock position and just happened to blow right onto the pwmic chip and mosfet heatsinks. The side fan did a great job on cooling this area and helped increase air and pressure into the case in general. The exhaust fan in the rear and the two 80mm fans in the psu tended to overwhelm the stock intake fans and create a negative pressure in the case. I never like that since it tends to draw air/dirt into the case through whatever holes there are; it always seems to be through the floppy and cd/dvd drives. Just before I bought the P180 I had my floppy quit on me; when I removed it there was about 1/8" of dirt/dust coating the bottom. Luckily CompGeeks had one on sale for $6 so I ran over and bought one. Did I mention that I live approximately 1/4 of mile from them and that is why many of my components are from them? With the case and psu from CompGeeks I could run the fans at half speed and get better cooling than I am getting now with the P180 and since the fans were not running at full speed they were quiet.

As I said in an earlier message I would also go with the Stacker 830 or even the original Stacker. I haven't looked at the Sunbeam but I will when I get done with this post. The main things I was looking for in a case was plenty of fan positions, enough drive positions and no futuristic/odd front panels. Some of the cases had oddly curved front covers and they would have interfered with the knobs on my old Vantec Nexus fan controller; the Vantec has knobs that protrude 1/2" and fit just fine behind the door. The P180 has most of what I wanted but it is much smaller internally than I want and I think that I would rather have a conventional top psu mounting position; especially with the Ultra-D and its connector positions. That might change once I adapt to the different position; I am a geezer and have trouble adapting to new things (lol).

As I have been composing this post I have been looking inside the case and have already come up with some cabling improvements I might be able to make after reading your post. I currently have my molex cables running along the near side of the drive bays and not the far side as I have my power cables. I did that mainly because the 2 PATA drives and the 2 CD/dvd drives have their power connectors on the near side. I can turn the PATA drives over but the cd/dvd drives have to stay as they are. If/when I change out the 120mm fan for a 92mm and route all of my cables out of the lower drive bay area I think that I can then run them along the back, still be able to make the connections needed and get them out of view. Thanks for the helpful info.

If I do cut the perforated sections behind the doors I will leave the slots/squares necessary to hold on the filters and still have sufficient support for them.

The main thing I like about the Zalman fan controller are the two toggles that let you turn off the fans entirely. My Vantec doesn't have that capability but then I don't know if I would ever use them; I just turn the fans all the way down and they can't be heard and still provide some airflow which never hurts. One other thing I would like in a controller is more fan positions. I think I saw one that would control six. I now have to run more than 1 fan in some controller positions; such as the two fans on the back and top. No big thing really.

It sounds easy enough to post images. I might try it when I get a little further on.

Oh-oh, I shouldn't have gone to that site you gave the link to. I can't resist all of the "fiddly bits" as Slarvebartfast puts it in The HitchHikers Guide to the Galaxy. When I finally post this I will be spending the rest of the day perusing the site.

Thanks for all,

Eeyore

I'm in the process of adding some more fans to mine and found that the front grills come off uber easy. You are right Litho that a little pressure at the top of the grill where it hinges needs a little downward pressure and they come right off...I'm taking lots of pics to chew up all of Happy's bandwidth so I'll post them when I'm done I'm taking pics of my "failed" attempt at making some cutouts for cable routing. They didn't so much as fail completely, they just ended up not being quite deep enough...still works, just not as mucho bitchen as I had intended

OG,

You and LT are correct about the small doors. Once you both told me about how to remove them I broke out my bifocals (I normally only use my glasses when driving since the state seems to think I need them) and I saw the tab with the pivot pin. I pushed down on the door lightly and using a small flat bladed screwdriver I pushed down on the tab and the door came out. One warning to others that want to remove these doors; don't press too hard on the tab or it can be broken off! I used more pressure than necessary and the tab bent down slightly without returning to its normal position; I had to use an Xacto knife blade to move the tab back into position. Press on the tab slowly increasing the pressure until the door releases and no more! Now I can more easily remove some of the slats and see if it helps with airflow without having to leave them off entirely. And they would cover any hacking and cutting I do to the perforated sections although that shouldn't show too much since my cutting will allow the filters to stay on also. Thanks for door info.

And where might you be adding these fans? I am going to do the 92mm from 120mm fan exchange in the psu duct that LT did. I just ordered 2 69cfm Panaflo fans ($3.00 ea) from SVC.com to use for that mod; I ordered one a couple of weeks ago that I am using on my XP-90 and it is doing a decent job. I would really like a Vantec Tornado (120cfm and noisey) but I can't see paying ~$15 plus shipping. I have to get my act together soon; I have ordered 3 times in 2 weeks from SVC buying a few items each time. The shipping costs are just killing me.

And I am still planning on putting a fan on the side panel aimed at the pwmic/mosfet area of the motherboard; that is why I bought the second Panaflo. I still haven't decided what size fan I will use; 92mm or 120mm. I originally planned on the 120mm but it might be too large for the position I want to put it.

When I get the fans and switch from the 120mm I am also going to try LTs method of cabling beside the new fan, into the lower drive cage area and then up through the small forward cutout into the main case area. I'll be waiting to see your pictures of your mods. I am always willing to steal other peoples good ideas.

One other thing to say to those looking at fan controllers. I looked on SVC.com at the PCToy, Sunbeam and Zalman controllers that they carry. The PCToy looks just like my old Vantec and has the same electrical ratings (and just $8); 15-18w per channel. I think Sunbeam had one rated at 20w. But I don't like the electricals on the Zalman; the 4 speed controls are rated at >5w although the 2 speed toggles will carry much more since they are mechanical switches (I thought they were on/off switches). I have used fans that draw up to 10w so I certainly have a problem with the Zalman. Watch the specs when buying a fan controller. And check for plugin output wires instead of wires soldered into the pcb. That way it is easy to choose a cable of the correct length and connector type.

Eeyore

I'm back with some pics!

I forgot to mention last night, I measured the cables on the OCZ GX when I got it: the ATX and other main lines are 22" on the nuts. I checked into the stats of the Liberty, and the docs said it was 22" for the atx line.

I measured the Liberty when I pulled it out, and the ATX line on it is 24.5", and that with a wicked curve in it!

I was seriously worried I wasn't going to be able to pull this off, but also knew I would pick up a good 2 inches passing through the fan. It worked out in the end, but it is still tight and I would have loved to have 2 more inches.








Ahhh! That explains it. :mad: And it doesn't help any that you have two more devices right there that also need a molex. Any chance of running the fanbus in the lowest 5.2 slot? I know what you mean about adding extensions and splitters, it also adds resistance to the line that was not designed into the PSU. It's a large part of the reason I switched was the Liberty had me using two extensions/splitters and one extension/floppy adapter. As you can imagine, I am very pleased to have these out of my case.

The sata cables hold a good memory in the wire, I've not had a problem with them springing back -- you can always tie them off for a week to be safe. I contoured them with my fingers, got the two to match pretty much perfectly, and voila:







Now here is where the Mr. Bo-Jang-goes in me takes over. I always try to use as little as possible. I don't use plastic ties when a little coaxing, massaging and tucking will do. Same deal here... I put the fan in with only one screw. Yup, just one. It doesn't budge, because the cables running past the side of it put enough pressure on it to keep it firm. There is no wobble or vibration, yet the fan is semi-loose of I move it with my hand. I figured I'd try it running, and could fix it by drilling a hole or two later.

I positioned it close to the operator side and bottom, so the cables come out of the PSU on the far bottom side of the case. In this mounting, the PSU power stats lable is showing (and right side up) from the opened side of the case.

And yes, you will be able to catch two more of the three holes, there is just enough of the shroud to do it.





I used the 90mm Zalman fan that came with my Zalman FB123 fan bracket. I don't remember it being very loud, but when in the lower chamber with wires near it;s fan blades, it was quite unacceptably loud. I ended up putting in a resistor that comes with other Zalman fans that run them in quiet mode, and now it doesn't make a peep. I ran the fan tail up through the rear slot, and sleeved the resistor with some black heatshrink for some dressing and have it blend better with the black plastic. Now I am tempted to heatshrink the white connector too, or paint it black.





Exactly! That problem has been eating away at me for months! I basically spend 8+ hours and a hundred bucks to move my cable entry toward the front of the case by 2-3 inches, lol! Yup.

I'm sure I could have done it with the Liberty, but I'd still have 3 adapters/extensions and a host of other related problems.

Before:



After:




The biggest annoyance was the damn molex was 2mm short of making this connection after jacking into the floppy. Right beside the VC-RE, if I pull the molex to the left and try to plug it in, it starts stressing the floppy connection too much. It drove me mad I tell you!



Now it's so clean in there, I even added the front panel firewire jack, so I could try using it with a borrowed DV camera.



Dremel with a cutting wheel, I hope.

[img]http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6040/p180cut3br.jpg[/img]

Right angle cut, I'll use a broken piece of hacksaw if I have to, it's only like 1/2 inch to go through. It is the only thing stopping the fan from getting in there, and actually you maybe could force the issue, or grind down the fan edges a bit, it is that close. But take that piece out and it will be a breeze to re-re fans there.

The drive bay is a tight fit, but looks OK. I also checked with it upside down, it will give approx 1/8th more clearance if needed.

All in time, no hurry. This thing is never finished, I enjoy working with it and every session whether overclocking or tinkering always produces some treasure of new information or sccess.

More pics of various stages

























[img]http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8471/gxonfinifulls7xx.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4594/gxonfiniffulls3pg.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5676/gxonfinirs7rn.jpg[/img]


[img]http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5042/gxglowss6sq.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6550/gxglowrs6dq.jpg[/img]

The most I'll need to pass through it is a panaflo H1BX, 5.5w 104cfm. It says 12v and .6amps on the lable.

I'm sure the Zalman can handle that and more, and pretty sure the mobo cpu fan header can handle up to 7w but I'll be sure to double check if I use it.

The drawback with the Zalman is that it won't go to 5 volts, only 7 volts. It is a safety net because some fans will stop spinning at 5 volts.

The drawback with the Sunbeam is twofold. One: the lights don't go OUT when a fan stops; and two: it will go below 5 volts, so if you turn the fans down too low and don't actually look to see if the fan is running, then leave the computer, you could loose everything to a nasty fire. At the very least you will cook the fan and/or fanbus.

Ideally, the Zalman will fit with the P180 door. If I can verify that, I'll get one. It says the nobs are 1/2 inch, but GreatScott says his door wouldn't close with it. :confused:

Almost forgot...

Here is a great little clear cmos jumper trick. Take any 3 pin extension, or make one like I did because you will never find one the perfect length. Place the jumper on the pins on one end, and the connector to the cmos clear header on the mobo, and you can now clean the cmos from outside the wire mess.





I've color coded mine so that I don't get it flipped upside down, or accidentally boot up with the clear cmos jumper ON. I just used a red Sharpie and drew stripes on the up sides. For the same fear of accidentally booting with the cmos jumper ON, I decided to go with this extension rather than a toggle switch. I felt a toggle switch was too easy to forget and mess up my cmos chip.

LT,

Are you sure you have enough pictures to show everything? I love it; it's like I am at your place looking at the computer.

I don't want to use the bottom 5.25" slot for drives; that is where I have stuffed my IDE cables for the cd/dvd and PATA drives. I ran them straight in from the IDE connector on the motherboard then run each out to the necessary drives; they are out of the way. I have thought about moving the cd/dvd drives to the top and the fan controller just below them. With the change in the lower fan and re-routing of the cables through the lower drive area I shouldn't have any problems with plugging into the upper drive since it sticks out much farther than the fan controller and the rest of the connectors get connected where they are now. The 2nd molex cable should also fit like it is currently. I'll also see what happens when I route the molex cables at the back of the case rather than in the front when I re-route them through the lower fan area. I think that I will still have to use the extender cable because of the depth of the fan controller connector. I will also have to re-route the fan output cables but that shouldn't be a problem; one of my orders from SVC.com had ~20 3 pin cables, extenders and converters. I can hook up any fan anywhere in the case.

I might try your method of mounting the new lower fan except that I will probably add the two other mounting holes; they are only into plastic and the bracket will be outside the case. They won't take any time at all. I don't think I'll try the new front lower fan mod; to do it I would need the case empty. And, at that, I will look at removing the pop rivets instead; I am used to removing and re-installing pop rivets.

Along with the re-routing of the cables away from the corner of the board it will also help me to get at the battery. Since I am having problems with overclocking since the case/psu change I have been trying different BIOSes which require removing the battery and moving the jumper to discharge the CMOS. The CMOS is not a problem because I put a 3 pin extension cable from the motherboard connector to the edge of the case with the jumper mounted at the end where it is easily reached. But digging around trying to get the battery out from behind all of the cables running in front of it was a task; it was hard enough in my old case with no cables running near it. The new cable routing will help immensely.

You seem cynical about whether it was worth the money to change the routing. I am thinking along the same lines. I bought the new case and psu hoping to increase my overclock but now I find that I can't even get back to my old oc speed. Yep, it was certainly worth the $200+ dollars right? But I think the oc'ing excuse was just a way for me to buy some new toys and play with them. At least that is my story and I am sticking to it!

By the way, in your pictures most of the fans are clear fans even in the stock positions. Did you change the fans that came with the case (mine are black) or are they the fans that came with the case?

You mentioned that you hooked up the Firewire connection to the front panel. I did also along with the USB connections. I don't have any Firewire devices but I do use a flashdrive and the front USB ports are handy.

My fan for the lower area is not due in until Wednesday so I won't be working on my case until then; thank goodness for the break. And then it should only take 5-6 days to re-route the cables (I hope not); cable routing is not my favorite task even though my favorite part of computers is working with the hardware. Especially adding new hardware; and we are back to the reason for the new case and psu. Give me new software and I generally couldn't care less. But I do need to work on my oc'ing problem so the time will come in handy.

Eeyore

Thanks again for all of the pictures; I am going to have to look at them more closely and see what other ideas I can gain from them

LT,

I see that we crossed posts. I was composing my last post as you were sending me yours. I use the clear CMOS jumper extension also as I indicated in my last post. I too have it marked to avoid problems but my extension is not sleeved. I tend not to go for looks in a computer as many people do. With me is almost "the plainer the better"; no exotic lights, UV connectors, side panel windows and such things. The extension is very handy.

On the Zalman fan controller listed on SVC.com they have the 4 controls listed at 7w maximum; to me that is too low. Make sure that you check before you buy. As I said earlier my Vantec fan controller knobs project out from the front panel 1/2"; the back of the door is approximately 1" from the front panel of my fan controller when it is closed. I have plenty of room but maybe Antec made some changes to the door that affect this distance. Also there could be a problem with the positioning of GSes controller in its bay. All of the upper drives/controller mount flush with the bezel but my floppy drive protrudes about .1"; this is using the standard (and only) mounting position with the drive rails supplied. Perhaps his controller sticks out some; but it would have to be almost 1/2" to interfere with the door.

Later,

Eeyore

Believe it or not, it's my wife that is the shutterbug in this house. :eek:

I think I will probably drill the other two holes in that 90mm fan next time I'm in there. I wasn't sure I was going to keep it that way, even though it would mean pulling every PSU wire out through the shroud to go back. I think I am set to stay that way, although I may change the fan. Once it's on a fanbus, it might be OK.

When I get to cutting that slot, I have a big-arse'd magnet I'll put down there, it will collect any debris I cause. I'll clear the area first of course, and seal any avenues of escape I can. There shouldn't be much mess, hopefully get to it next weekend.

Cynical might be the wrong word, sarcastic would be better. I had to get a PSU anyway, I let one go out of a my xp3000 to my brother because stores were closed and he was leaving next day. Instead of replacing the 400w fortron I gave him, I replaced the Liberty that was in my main rig here. That let me move the Liberty down to the xp3000, which will morph into something else later this summer.

So I'm happy with the swap, very happy with the cable results so far although I still wish they were 2" longer. Performance wise I'm still collecting data but from what I've seen so far the voltages fluctuate a wee bit where the Liberty didn't budge a single point.

The fans I replaced one at a time as I found them on specials, mainly for the 3 pin connection and sensor. Once I had one with a light in the case, I kind of liked it and continued with the theme. I found that these clear ones tend to be a little louder, but also more powerful, the noise mostly due to more air. I also found that they vary quite a bit, some turn a lot faster than others. Not very good fans at all, but damn cheap on special and near 80cfm at high speed -- I'm not going to complain! lol I've gone through nearly a dozen of them, putting them in several client systems because at low and medium they are very quiet and a whole lot better than the usual empty slot I find when I open their case.

The black ones they give you are 4 pin no sensor, I like to know my rpms. I'm a total data whore. The upper front intake is still a stock black one, as well as the current one I have hanging over the ram. Now I have that big fat 120x38mm to do something with... mohahah.

YVW for the pics, hope you (and others) get lots of ideas from them, that's why I post em!

The Zalman fan controller only has maximum 7w per channel? So you can't even run a fan at 12v unless you put it on one of the toggles? Hmmmm. I had heard (no pun intended) that the Vantec controller made a humming noise, so kind of shied away from it. Yet it has a 3.5" version that would be attractive because I don't use the floppy slot and would prefer a fanbus in there. Maybe I should look again at the Vantec, they fix the humm?

You have a thread going anywhere about your overclock difficulties?

LT,

Tell your wife that she takes great pictures and the large number are appreciated; you can find a view of just about every corner of your case.

I know what you mean about using a large magnet when cutting steel. Before I assembled the new system I drilled two holes (using a small hole saw) in the motherboard "tray" so that I can remove the chipset cooler without having to remove the motherboard. There were chips everywhere!

I buy fans the same way. If I see a good deal on a site then I will buy one or more probably two. I told you that I had ordered a couple of the Panaflo fans from SVC.com that I am planning on using in the lower fan mod. But then I got into the good deals forum on DFI Street and found a list of online stores that people like/recommend. I found the name of a site that I had used in the past but hadn't been to in 3 years or more. So I went to NexFan.com and ended up buying a 92mm Vantec Tornado (119cfm and LOUD) and a 120mm Y.S. Tech fan (100+cfm). I wanted a Tornado but the cheapest I had seen them was $15 and up; NexFan has them for $10. And the Y.S. Tech I bought because of the high airflow and it is only 25mm thick (1"). If I decide to place a fan in front of the lower drive bay the thickness (or lack of) will help it fit in; most high output 120mm fans are 38mm thick (1.5"). I will be waiting to hear how your mod for the fan goes.

I don't mind not having the tachometer wire since most of my fans don't seem to read correctly in MBM anyway. I depend on the temperature readings and not the fan speeds for alerting me to problems.

The Zalman fan controller is rated only to 7w max; and I found on the Zalman site that the two toggle positions do not have plugin connectors but small terminal blocks that require bare or tinned leads and a screwdriver to install. And the toggles switch between 5v and 12v for speed control. Even I don't have that many fans over 7w but the Tornado that I just bought is 10-12w; I really don't understand why the low output. That is why I said to check before you buy to make certain the ratings meet your needs. My Vantec is now 4-5 years old and is the 5.25" variety; I don't remember if they had a 3.5" version when I bought mine. I haven't had any trouble with mine and I have never heard any noise from it; of course I generally have so many fans that their noise would cover any noise the controller could make.

No I haven't started a thread yet on the overclocking problems. I haven't had a chance to really work on it. But until I get my new fans I will spend time on the problem. Once I hit a wall with the problem I will start a new thread; as I said in an earlier post, the main reason I bought the new psu was to help me increase my oc. If I can't get my oc'ing speed up then the money spent on the psu was a waste; except for the fun (?) of installing it or course.

And I also need to test the temp change when covering the front intake areas with cardboard; I already modified the door grills by removing every other slat with a coping saw.

Please keep everyone informed as to your progress. And more pictures are welcome.

Eeyore

LithoTech-you did the same thing i did with those lower fans. i put a 92mm fan where that 120mm fan was so that i could get my wires through. and i also got a 120fan in front of the hdd bay by removing that little metal piece. that really helps the hdd's now doesnt it? nice pics btw.

LT,

One other thing I hadn't thought about is the audio cable from the front panel audio/microphone jacks to the Karajan module. I didn't hook it up at the time I put in the motherboard but I am considering it now; there seems to be a question concerning the pinouts on the module versus the case cable connector. Especially since it has a 10 pin connector (supposedly meeting an Intel audio standard) along with 7 individual pins for use on motherboards with none standard audio connectors. It looks like you don't have the Karajan installed in your system; at least in doesn't show in your pictures. Have you ever had the module installed and had the case cable hooked to it; if so, how did you connect it? I want to use the front jacks but to do that I would also have to put up with a familiar problem. The audio cable on the case is short; it will reach the Karajan module but it has to go directly across the motherboard instead of being able to route it so that it can't be seen.

Because of what you and others have said about fan changes (92mm from 120mm), adding the additional front panel 120mm fan, cable routing changes, my need to remove the front perforated areas, et al, I have decided to do more than I had initially planned on doing when I get the necessary fans and other parts that I ordered. I may also make the cutout and add a fan to the side panel but that is not really necessary at this time since the panel is easily removable and can be done anytime. Thanks LT for the extra work! I will begin this on Wednesday or Thursday depending on when the parts are delivered and who knows how long it will take.

I also have to work around a change in my DSL service. I am currently with my local telephone company (SBC/ATT) on a promotional package; $28/month for 3Meg service. Since then the promotional pricing has gone down to $18/month but there is a catch. The promotional price is only for new customers; existing customers can only renew at a price of $39/month. I don't think so. So I am switching to another ISP that uses the same SBC/ATT telephone lines and is offering the same promotional prices since I will be a new customer with them. In addition, my telephone line may qualify for 6Meg service which is the same price as I currently pay for 3Meg service! I am hoping the line is good enough! But that means a hassle with both companies in switching over so I really don't know if I will be down or for how long. The new ISP has a "fast switchover program" that supposedly allows no downtime since they use SBC/ATT lines and work with them. But the DSLExtreme forum on dslreports.com has complaints from many people about their switchover process from SBC/ATT to DSLExtreme. So I may or may not be able to access this site during the next week or two. Be patient with me and my ISP/s.

Eeyore

Good luck with your DSL...if your service has been good then you should be okay. I've tried DSL before. Back when it first came out and it was way better than dial up. Then I switched to cable and was blown away. Tried to cheap out a few years later and went back to DSL and it was nothing but a nightmare...Back to cable a year ago and never a single glitch since then. In my neck of the woods.....Cable rocks....and DSL sucks. I'm sure it varies from town to town, but I'll never go back to DSL.

OG,

I have never used cable; partially since I don't subscribe to cable tv but even if I did subscribe the cost is way too high. Where I live in Oceanside it is $/month and when I lived in Santa Ana a couple of years ago it was $60/month. No thanks.

I have had DSL for a few years now and have only had one major problem. It was with SBC when they had a 3-4 day outage across most of there western areas. That was not the real problem. The real problem was with their customer support that is in India. When I called about the problem they went through their "ten step" program having you check various aspects on your computer. When those didn't work (about an hour later) I was sent to a supervisor (still in India) who went through some other steps (another amount of time wasted). Never was I told that the whole network was down. They continued to try and find a problems with my setup. Over the 3-4 days I sent from one support agent to another with no word about the outage. And one of the problems that the Indian support agents have is their reluctance to give up; when asked they to be switched to another level they take offense and it is very difficult to get them to transfer you to another agent. At the end of the whole process, just before the outage was fixed, it was decided that I needed to send my modem in for an exchange since it must be bad. I was going to box it up the next day but when I tried it the next morning I got right on. That it when I found out about the lengthy outage. Luckily the new company I am switching to has their support in Winnetka and they are supposed to be very good; this is from people on the DSLX forum on the BroadbandReports site. Overall I have had very good luck with DSL and I like the price. Now if I can just get 6Meg service I will be in heaven!

Eeyore

Correct, it isn't, and never was. When I first put the system together I intended to, and discovered that the rear exhaust fan blocks the Krajan module from being mounted. I ended up pulling a SB Live 5.1 from another system here until I got a deal on this SB Xfi music. Never looked back, and the Krajan was only going to be used till I got an Xfi anyway. Music has always been a big part of my life and family, so I knew I wanted a decent sound card for listening to music on the comp, as well as offload game sound from the cpu.

Yes good luck with the DSL. Around my area the DSL blows huge chunks, can't even get 3mbit, 1.5 mbit is max iirc. Where cable offers 7 mbit at a premium that I gladly pay. However, it is rare that I find sites that feed me files at my full cap speed. Yet, when I do, I get nearly 10 mbit speeds late at night. Very sweet for large d/l's. Another thing I noticed when I upped to the premium was my ping to several servers was reduced. One in California that was usually 100-150 ping was all of a sudden 50-90. That alone was worth the cost! I was unaware that bandwidth could reduce ping so much, man was I ever wrong! The final benefit was my upload rate is boosted to a full 1 mbit, a huge boost the the 256k of local DSL and 500k of regular cable. It allowed me to host 16 player servers lag free -- pre HL source games.

Credit where credit is due! I am pretty damn sure that I got the idea from you, in Oldguys' blowhole thread:

http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showpost.p...116&postcount=9

Full thread for those that missed the sticky:

http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57047

Did you just remove the lower cross piece or the whole bracket?

I'm still very impressed with your awesome clean look, sparse is sweet! I got too much junk and doodads to ever be that clean, but maybe one day when I move out of this system I'll scale it back to something like that.

I've seen people running without a fan there, but never thought of putting in a 90mm. I must thank you for that, it's by far the best change I've made since owning this case!

I've yet to add a 120mm up fron the the HDs, hoping to get to this week. I've been watching the HD temps, and the 90mm is doing OK considering it has a 7v mod on it -- it was far too loud at full speed. My HD temps are currently 38C, 5C above previous. Account for a good couple degrees higher ambient here, so I'm guessing 3C higher on the average. I'd get a better 90mm fan but this thing is impossible to hear with the resistor on it and I know the 120mm up front will take care of the rest.

.

LT;

I do listen to music but sound quality is not that important to me; most of my listening is to old time radio programs that I get from the newsgroups. I didn't even know that the Karajan module was a problem in the P180 until I read it here; mine was already installed when I switched to the P180 and it didn't interfere when I placed the motherboard in position! Others that want to use the module and have interference problems generally just grind away a small portion of the fan frame; that is what I would have done if I had the problem. It turns out that the default pinout on the P180 10 pin connector is just fine for the Karajan; just plug and go. That is as far as the audio goes; I have microphones, don't use them and didn't test the front panel mic jack to see if it works or not. One thing though, since the P180 is short, I have to run the cable straight across the board either below or above the cpu heatsink. I already have the Firewire cable running the same way; I was planning on disconnecting it since I don't use any Firewire devices. Now I believe I will commit sacrilege and route both across the board; it must be OK though since your pictures show that you have the Firewire cable there!

My main problems with cable are price and the requirement that you must also subscribe to cable tv service before you can get the internet cable. I don't use the local tv cable service and, even if I did, I wouldn't like to pay double the price I pay for the equivalent dsl speed. Assuming you have cable tv, the cable price for 4Meg service here is $50/month (with a premium for higher speeds) and 6Meg dsl is $28/month. Upload speed on the 6Meg service I am looking at is only ~700k but upload speed is not important to me since I very rarely upload any large files; email is about it.

I was hoping that you had already added your front 120mm fan. As soon as I send this message off I am going to tear down my system and start on my mods; I have several deliveries scheduled today via UPS, FedEx and USPS with my components. One of the mods I was thinking about performing was the fan addition in front of the lower drive bay; I was hoping to see what and how you had done it. If the front 120mm fan addition is possible then I would probably remove the 92mm fan in the middle section altogether. If nothing else I will look at the area and see how I would do it; I am going to remove the bezel to see if removing the pop rivets might be an alternative to cutting. Removing the bezel will also let me see how the front panel led's are mounted since I don't care for the blue ones; I would rather have the more traditional red and green. Although I might leave one of the blue ones for the second hard drive activity light; not that I can use both right now but if I ever need to use the 2nd one it would be nice to have a different color.

In the beginning of this thread I indicated how disappointed I was with case because of the higher temps. Beginning yesterday when I turned on my system, and continuing today, the temps of the cpu and pwmic have decreased about 4C over what they have been since I switched the case and psu. Our outside temp here hasn't changed; it has been getting up to about 90F for a couple of weeks. I don't know the reason. I did re-apply Arctic Silver when I had the motherboard out for the switchover; I have read that it takes a while for the AS to "cook" properly but I never noticed that happening before. I don't know why but I do like it; maybe this case will work.

Well, it's time to nibble, cut, drill and otherwise hack up my case.

I'll be back in a day or two,

Eeyore

Doh! Missed this reply!

Doh! Misunderstood me! I meant that if you think I take a lot of pics, you should see how many the wife takes!

I took all these, but I do admit she has taken some computer pics for me as she has a much deeper understanding of the manual workings of the camera. I have been learning though!


Thanks for the info on the controllers. I ended up deciding on a Sunbeam controller. The 7w minimum will bite me in the arse eventually, I just know it. And the Vantec controllers won't fit as nicely in the bay assembly I have, and the supplier near me that I like to deal with doesn't carry them. I nixed the idea of going with a 3.5" version, as I really need to fill a 5.2" voide that my assembly is taking up. The Sunbeam will do the trick, and I will just have to be extra carefull when the fans are turned low.

I picked up a 104fcm Panaflo for my heatsink a while ago, and will now give it a tryout once the fanbus is in -- hopefully tonight.

.

Wow, it was so long ago I really can't remember just how acurately I measured things, or if I tried a dry fit. I seem to remember installing the mobo without it initially, barebones get up and running. Then leter trying to add it. So perhaps the problem is plugging the module in when the mobo is already in the case, although if it fits it should FIT and only require taking out the fan temporarily. /boggle

Damn memory, I keep forgetting I'm loosing my memory in old age.

Maybe I just got lazy and plugged in a soundblaster because it would be easier and sound better. I don't think so, because I remember discussing the issue on other occasions, where that module simply does not fit. Perhaps they changed the size of the module and I have an older one? No way the case is different, even though you have no side air duct you have the vent so that exhaust fan is in the same position. Gah, drives me nutz! I feel like pulling the mobo and adding the module to see if it fits lol!

The 120mm fan up front: No, I've been so busy fixing a problem with the inlaws computer, my kids computer had a near hard drive crash, and a ton of vacation pictures that need editing for prints; and I've been trying to get my xp3000 back up with the Liberty.

Then I bought some new ram (see sig), and been working with it a little bit, just finished priming stock. I want to try the panaflo on the xp-120 before starting to overclock again.

We'll see, maybe I'll find the energy and desire and do the cut tonight.

.

LT,

Sorry for not replying in a timely manner. I had planned on starting my mods last Wednesday but then I found out that one of my fan shipments had gone out when it was supposed to. I thought the shipment would be here Friday but then all of a sudden it turned up Thursday. I needed to go out for some small shrink sleeving and leds; I also stopped for a haircut. Since all of our strictly electronic shops are no longer in business I headed for our local Radio Shack; it has closed. I went to the next closest; it was also closed. I didn't want to drive to San Diego (30 miles) or San Marcos (15 miles) so I headed for my local hardware store; on the way there the power steering hose came loose on my Acura RSX-S and I almost hit another car. Luckily it was only a loose bolt; I tightened it and added steering fluid. I drove to the hardware store, added more fluid and then went in. They didn't carry the shrink tubing. My last chance was the local Home Depot that I would pass on the way. I got lucky and they had a small plastic envelope of cut pieces which was good enough; of course they didn't carry leds. When I got home I called around to see if I could find someone that could "steam clean" my engine compartment and remove all of the steering fluid that had sprayed around; I don't want it to harm the paint and rubber. I couldn't find anyone so I ended up with my garden hose in the driveway; I sprayed for about 10 minutes and then gave up. My attitude at that time was not good so I decided not to work on my system.

On Friday I began my experience. I removed everything from the case but the psu including the bezel. I managed to find a green and a red led so I worked on the bezel first. I popped off the power led and the #1 hdd led; they are just standard 5mm round leds that lay in holes in the bezel and acrylic holders with a clear adhesive over them. The adhesive looks like white wood glue; I have a small bottle of general purpose glue that looks the same so that is what I used to put them back. I now have a green power light, red hdd #1 and blue hdd #2. I put the bezel aside while the glue set.

Next, with the bezel off, I had free access to the bracket in front of the lower drive bay so I drilled out the pop rivets. In looking at the area I decided not to put a fan in that position. To mount a fan I would have had to screw it to the perforated front and then I would be unable to use the filter since it has plastic tabs that protrude into the case. I riveted the bracket back on and worked on removing the perforated sections of the case in front of the upper and lower drive bays. I removed all of the perforations except for those required to hold the filters on. I also replaced the fan in front of the upper bay with a higher output fan (115cfm vs. 80cfm). The new fan was .25" thicker (1.25" vs. 1.05") but it does fit.

Then I tackled the fan/brackets in the middle of the psu duct. I removed the fan and plastic bracket and played with putting a 92mm on it. I didn't like that solution; the fan attachment would have been flimsy and the large opening remaining would need to be closed. If the opening was left there would be a tendency for the air to travel backwards through the opening if there was any back pressure. In looking further I noticed that the metal bracket that holds the plastic fan bracket and blocks the majority of the duct (except for the fan hole) has a lot of material on either side of the plastic fan bracket. I drilled out the rivets and removed the bracket where I could work with it more easily. I cut a "slot" (about .75" x 2.50") in the metal bracket on the far side of the fan; the gap there allows the cables to be run along side of the 120mm fan/bracket. I used the 120mm, 105cfm fan that I had been waiting for and it works great. And since I wasn't going to be using the rear sliding slot I removed the plastic cover and taped over the slots in the metal.

This left me to assemble the system. I did find that with 6 hard drives, 2 cd/dvd drives, a floppy drive, fan controller and motherboard there is no good way to route the cables; there are just too many power, data, led, switch and other cables. Especially when I found that the lower drive bay has to have the drives oriented in one certain direction if you are filling it; when I had only 3 drives I had them oriented upside down for easier routing of the power and data cables. But the 4th drive could not be installed if the drives were oriented that direction; when I turned them over it totally messed up the SATA cabling. The 2 PATA drives have a similar problem. The routing is not what I had hoped for at all.

It was late so I decided to wait until Saturday to hook up the system and power it up. Push the power button and NOTHING! No fans or drives starting. The only thing I could see were the amber memory power light and the amber light in the lower left corner. I checked all of the connections again; plugged and unplugged but nothing. I spent about an hour fiddling with the system. Psu or motherboard was the question I asked so I got out my old psu that I had replaced with the OCZ. I hooked it up and, again, nothing! I was upset and had the urge to get my sledge hammer from the garage and work on the system with it. I calmed myself down and just left the system alone and I spent the day doing other things around the house.

Sunday morning I removed everything from the case but the psu. I placed the motherboard next to the case/psu on a piece of cardboard and plugged the psu into the motherboard. I had the memory installed and I plugged the cpu fan into the motherboard header; I had nothing else attached. I pushed the start switch on the motherboard and was relieved to see the fans spinning, the error lights illuminate and finally the error beeps began. Good news! I then started to put the system together one piece at a time while checking for power each time. I finally got it up and running.

Of course that was not the end of my problems. When I finally booted up I discovered that each of the 2 PATA drives were only showing 32GB of storage space; they are 250GB Hitachi drives that I want to set up as RAID0 to hold my backup image. I currently backup over 260GB of information, which I know is ridiculous, and one 250GB drive was not enough. Now what did I do? After checking the drives with the Hitachi software I finally remembered that when I was routing the data cable to them I had to switch positions with them to get better cable flow. And I had re-jumpered them; it turns out that with the Hitachi drives you can have a jumper setting that restricts the storage space to 32GB. Since I hadn't worn my bifocals when doing the jumpering I evidently couldn't read the label on the edge of the drive that shows the various configurations possible. I finally was able to set up the RAID0 array and format it; just the formatting took a couple of hours. Then another 5 hours to backup up to the new array. I now have to delete my boot array and create another which includes the 4th SATA drive that I have added. Then install the OS from the image and I am done!

Until Wednesday when I change ISPs. Then I have to reconfigure to use the new ISP. It never ends. However this time I may have reached my limit; I was totally frustrated a couple of times in modding my system. I don't know if it is age or am I just getting tired of working with computers and need to find another hobby. Maybe I'll go back to fishing or shooting for awhile to see what I think.

Later,

Eeyore

Great read!



Oh I like to hear this. I got a catalog in the mail a few weeks ago, from ebm-papst, 300 pages perfect bound of air moving goodness complete with schematics and statistics. A good opportunity to put it to it's first use!

I got it by requesting it via a contact link on their website. I don't recall exactly, I think I just nicely asked if they had one, or maybe the link was actually for them. Nice book, very happy they sent it.

That is pure genious about simply cutting a slot into the metal bracket that holds the middle fan. That will save me at least another inch or two in cable length, and get a 120 back down there. I think I'll replace that big slug too, but for now it will do, I can tell by the amount of dust it collects on the filter. Damn, man, I can't want to get into this and get it done.

Are the rivets in the top part of it hidden under the plastic slot cover? I can't see any, yet it is definately firmly rivited at the top.

I know what you mean about cable nightmare with a lot of gear in this case. With a basic system it is pretty easy to deal with. But with a lot of extra gear it is a real pain to get it even half decent, and then becomes a pain every time you dive into it for other reasons. It got for me, that I save up all the major chores for one big session where I pull most everying out, clean it up, do the work, put it back. Much better than many small trips through a jungle of wires.

Glad you got it all going! I love that power and reset switch on the mobo!

My brother is shopping for a case now, and while he's always been telling me how much he like's my "fridge", he didn't look twice at them even with the low prices they are at these days. He's very close to decided on a ThermalTake Shark, damn near $200 CND. Nice case from what I see on the net, but have never put my hands on one. I should look around here and see if anyone uses one. There is a lot of nice features with it. I might like to pick one up myself and migrate this P180 down a system or sell it. Don't get me wrong, I love it, and happy, but damn that Shark looks nice.

LT,

You sound like me. The larger the fan the better. The fan in front of the upper cage is 1.25" thick and just fits; my next 120mm fan is thicker (1.375") and it wouldn't fit. But the one I used is 110-115cfm and the thicker one was only 125cfm so it is just fine. One thing that surprised me was the Y. S. Tech fan I bought that I thought might fit in the front of the lower cage is only 1.00" thick and puts out 102cfm; I believe the airflow rating since I used it in the psu duct position and it is noisey when I turn it up all of the way. I don't know much about modern Papst fans but I own 4 80mm fans that I bought from a local electronics store that used to buy up used and surplus items. They had many fans and one time had some brand new Papst fans. They are ~50cfm, 1.5" thick and are heavy since they have metal frames. I have used 2 of them for quite a few years and always liked them. I will also have to go to their site and see if I can get one of their catalogues; it sounds like there could be a lot of useful info in it.

What is even better for me (since I was able to use my nibbling tool more easily) is that it is not a true slot but just an extension of the cutout in the metal bracket. And it does work well without causing any problems; just like going through the unused portion of the bracket when you have a 92mm fan mounted except you can keep the 120mm fan and its increased airflow and lower noise.

Yes, there are two rivets under the sliding plastic covers and two on the bottom of the chassis. They are just common aluminum "pop" rivits that are very easy to drill. The best way to drill them is to use a drill bit that is a little larger than the head of the rivet, place the drill bit in the hole in the head and using a low speed (if your drill allows it) put a minimal amount of pressure on the rivet while drilling. If you go to hard and fast it is easy to drill through the chassis also which means you would have to drill out all of the holes to take a larger rivet. And they are also easy to replace; I have a cheap hand tool that I bought years ago at a hardware store and the rivets are also easily found in most hardware stores.

I think I looked at the Shark on the internet but decided it wasn't for me; probably a lack of drive bays. But I have seen that many people on this site use it and many have recommended it to people asking about which case to buy. If you get one let me know what you think about it.

My system is still up and running but I am now fighting with another problem. When I added the 4th SATA drive to my RAID0 array the speed dropped. And I created a 2nd PATA drive to create a 2nd RAID0 array to use for my backup drive. But even with the faster 3 drive SATA array feeding the 2 drive PATA array I have found that doing a True Image backup takes much longer than it did when I was using the 3 drive SATA array feeding a single PATA. I have a thread started in the NF4 chip forum concerning RAID0, multiple drives and the NV RAID controller chip.

And tomorrow my ISP is supposed to be switched. This could be fun; one company starting service, another stopping service and neither one will probably take responsibility if things don't work!

I'll talk to you again when/if I get back on,

Eeyore