Kamikaze_Badger Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 Maybe targeting the factors that encourage and facilitate crime in the first place would be more effective than specifically focusing on guns? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvstrats2 Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 Maybe targeting the factors that encourage and facilitate crime in the first place would be more effective than specifically focusing on guns? Sadly no one has thought of this yet. Mainly because it's bad for the gun ban legislature. This is politician thinking "Untreated/undocumented mental illness isn't causing these shootings, guns are !" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamikaze_Badger Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) It's kind of like obesity in healthcare. You can treat the high blood pressure and high cholesterol with medications, or you can try getting the patient to change their lifestyle. Treating the cause is more effective than treating the effects. EDIT: I'll leave the question of HOW to address those issues to sociologists and criminologists. Edited December 29, 2012 by Kamikaze_Badger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 Treating the cause is more effective than treating the effects. And much more expensive. Seems like everything comes down to money. Even if it saves in the long run, nobody wants to pay more now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporX Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 In the end I think it is about making the person in office appear useful. For example here in Illinois a few years back we had an effort made to pass a law that required a person be over 18 to purchase certain video games. I pointed out on the show that roughly 90% of all game purchases were done by Mom and hence this would not be an effective law. However the general populace applauded this effort because they felt like it made them safe. A retired Politian and I sat down one even and talked and he explained that situation. You see the truth is many of the things that people want to be protected from they cannot be. There is no law that will stop someone coming into a house and killing you if they choose. No amount of police officers on the streets or harsher penalties can stop this from happening. So instead of telling this to the people and focusing on the issues they can do something about, the political hacks make issues that are meaningless their priority because to the people they appear to care. It is a pure political move with zero impact on ever really protecting anyone. The Illinois law above was being pushed after another round of blame video games for the worlds ills. It was the hot button topic and so even though it would do not good they passed the law and made good press with the public. Here is the funny part, they all KNEW the law would be struck down in court and passed it anyway, free good will and all. The same today with gun laws. There is NO gun law that could be passed, even a pure ban, that would stop gun violence. To be honest when you consider the percentage of gun crimes committed by legal gun owners and how low it is, I am not sure a complete ban would even do much to lower gun violence. The issue is that something terrible happened and people do not feel safe. They have to find a blame and so the Politian's,. never one to not turn a tragedy into their gain, start putting out scape goats like Guns and Video Games. Notice BTW the Dems push hard at video games but kind of let violent movies slide, oh they get mentioned but not as aggressively. Shows who pays the most in campaign contributions. The part that truly is evil to me is that in principle this is the same tactic used by evil men to rule nations for centuries. Remember Hitler used the Jews to explain all the ills of his nation and demanded the rise against them. Now I know we are not there yet but how long before we run out of things to blame and start blaming a certain segment of the population instead? Do not believe it will happen, it already does, how often does the left and the right blame the others for some action that takes place? We are on a dangerous slope as a nation. Finally tell me if any of you have heard the press ever just come out and say this kid was a nut job. I mean without adding after that the need for gun laws or killing off gaming. I mean just laying the blame at the feet of the person that pulled the trigger, not at a lack of anything or what the latest thing to blame is, just at his feet. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewr05 Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 I have not personally checked these stats, but I have no reason to believe they are false: Caution: Wall of text Unknown source, found on reddit - "I think it's time to analyze the comparisons being thrownaround about the US verses Canada, the UK, and Australia. These cherry picked nations used by gun-control advocatesdo not compare well with the United States when dealing with the issue ofmurder and/or violent crimes. Omitting the use of the propaganda term "guncrime" one can see that actual violent crime in the US is not muchdifferent than Europe. However, let us examine first the comparisons of the UK,Canada and Australia with the US using population parity rather than simply PerCapita, since Per Capita is misleading if the populations of the countriesbeing compared aren't even remotely similar. To gain this equivalency we must compare state of the USto these countries since the populations of these countries are five-twentytimes smaller than that of the US. The violent crime rate of countries like Canada andAustralia are not lower than equivalent US states. The idea that theUS should be compared to the UK, Australia, or Canada as a whole is ludicrous,and disingenuous. The UK only has apopulation of 63,000,000 people. The US has312,000,000, nearly five times more than the UK. Total violentcrime in the US (2010 Census figures) was 1,318,000. Total violentcrime in the UK (2010 Home Office Statistical Bulletin 2010) was 962,877 (omittingproperty crimes that may have involved a weapon). So the UK hasnearly the violent crime of the US, yet 1/5th its population. A better comparison would be to take the three largeststates by population (for density) of California, Texas, and New York state(78,000,000 people). They had a total violent crime rate of 371,854 (using2010 Census data). Thus the UK's violent crime is nearly triple (2.6 timesmore) that of those states combined. All of those states have less strict gun laws and moregun owners than the UK, with Texas having nearly no gun laws in comparison tothe UK. The United States has overall more gun owners than the UKhas citizenry at 80,000,000+ known gun owners in the United States. Thus it is to be expected that a country with five timesthe population should have a significant (at least 5 times or more) thehomicide of the UK. To contrast this, let us take a country like Russia. Russia has a population of 141,000,000 with a totalnumber of gun owners at 12,000,000 (approx) yet they have 5 times the violentcrime (13,100 homicides alone) we have (source Russian Ministry of InternalAffairs report 2010). As for comparisons of the US with Canada and Australia, thenumbers speak for themselves. Canada's populationis 34,000,000. Australia 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewr05 Posted December 30, 2012 Posted December 30, 2012 BUMPRead my previous postAlso this: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccokeman Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 I have not personally checked these stats, but I have no reason to believe they are false: Caution: Wall of text Unknown source, found on reddit - "I think it's time to analyze the comparisons being thrown around about the US verses Canada, the UK, and Australia. These cherry picked nations used by gun-control advocates do not compare well with the United States when dealing with the issue of murder and/or violent crimes. Omitting the use of the propaganda term "gun crime" one can see that actual violent crime in the US is not much different than Europe. However, let us examine first the comparisons of the UK, Canada and Australia with the US using population parity rather than simply Per Capita, since Per Capita is misleading if the populations of the countries being compared aren't even remotely similar. To gain this equivalency we must compare state of the US to these countries since the populations of these countries are five-twenty times smaller than that of the US. The violent crime rate of countries like Canada and Australia are not lower than equivalent US states. The idea that the US should be compared to the UK, Australia, or Canada as a whole is ludicrous, and disingenuous. The UK only has a population of 63,000,000 people. The US has 312,000,000, nearly five times more than the UK. Total violent crime in the US (2010 Census figures) was 1,318,000. Total violent crime in the UK (2010 Home Office Statistical Bulletin 2010) was 962,877 (omitting property crimes that may have involved a weapon). So the UK has nearly the violent crime of the US, yet 1/5th its population. A better comparison would be to take the three largest states by population (for density) of California, Texas, and New York state (78,000,000 people). They had a total violent crime rate of 371,854 (using 2010 Census data). Thus the UK's violent crime is nearly triple (2.6 times more) that of those states combined. All of those states have less strict gun laws and more gun owners than the UK, with Texas having nearly no gun laws in comparison to the UK. The United States has overall more gun owners than the UK has citizenry at 80,000,000+ known gun owners in the United States. Thus it is to be expected that a country with five times the population should have a significant (at least 5 times or more) the homicide of the UK. To contrast this, let us take a country like Russia. Russia has a population of 141,000,000 with a total number of gun owners at 12,000,000 (approx) yet they have 5 times the violent crime (13,100 homicides alone) we have (source Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs report 2010). As for comparisons of the US with Canada and Australia, the numbers speak for themselves. Canada's population is 34,000,000. Australia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragsman Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 As far as I know nobody can buy a weapon in Argentina, except hunting rifles. But I don't see people geting pistols, shotguns, revolvers, automatic rifles LOL (why would you buy an automatic rifle), snipers, etc. I think only police can have permission for them. Oh well and criminals obtain them from black market of course, so they DO have weapons =/ Plus, in the next block of my house there are armed kids. People know that so police too but as they are underaged they can't go jail even tough they have already fired to police in previous ocassions.. wtf is that? So every country has it fuked up laws. Usa free weapons for everyone = ppl can defend themselves but society have fuked up kids. High school is tough for some guys, holliwood movies shows its a hell in general so guys own guns and kill enemies.. well they are movies. I really don't know how is that. Here, no weapons for anyone (except criminals that obtain from black market), we can't defend but also we rarely have a kid shooting in school. I think it happened 1 or 2 but one or no-one died. It wasn't a big deal. I agree with someone who said people hasbeen kiling each other and they won't stop. But I also say "proper home education" is the only salvation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragsman Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 @ccokekman Australia Population: 23millon .... HAAHHHAHAHAhahhahahahha no wonder why such a beautiful and huge territory is inhabitated by such a few people.. Maybe because of the wilderness of insects and killing animals xDxDxD. I think we are 48milons and our country is 60% of australia's size. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewr05 Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 But I don't see people geting pistols, shotguns, revolvers, automatic rifles LOL (why would you buy an automatic rifle), snipers, etc. The thing is, unless you've gotten your weapon illegally the only other way for a citizen of the USA to obtain an automatic firearm is to first find one for sale (as far as I know, upwards of $10,000) and then on top of that you have to file for a ~$200 (might be more?) federal tax stamp as well as a rather lengthy background check. Same thing with a suppressor/silencer, you need an expensive tax stamp for those as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccokeman Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 @ccokekman Australia Population: 23millon .... HAAHHHAHAHAhahhahahahha no wonder why such a beautiful and huge territory is inhabitated by such a few people.. Maybe because of the wilderness of insects and killing animals xDxDxD. I think we are 48milons and our country is 60% of australia's size. Well it was a penal colony at one time so some of the European people there are descendants of dare I say it........criminals! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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